No paradise Earth?

jaffacake

I was on the Beth Sarim JW reform site today and read some interesting threads from all sorts of folks, including some Bible Students (you know, of the ones that started off the watchtower but refused to follow the apostate Rutherford when he succeeded in his legal coup for control when Russell died). I never could understand the doctrine of the paradise earth hope, which the JWs seem to confuse with the millennial kingdom. Anyway, I stole a bit of someones post which I found interesting:

There is not one scripture that relegates the hope for those who follow Jesus in the narrow way to anything but heaven?

Can you show me one scripture where the New Testament Christians desired to live on a paradise earth? Can you show me one scripture where the apostles even preached a paradise earth for the Church? Just one scripture?

Can you show me a scripture that states that paradise earth is any sort of prize for the Christian Church?

I have never understood why despite the warnings in the New Testament about sticking to what Jesus described as this good news of the kingdom which will be preached to the whole world, the JWs preach a very different twentieth century version, about dates and a paradise earth. The Bible talks of an everlasting good news which is the basis for the faith that was once and for all time delivered to the holy ones.

2 John verse 9: If anyone does not remain in the teaching of Christ, but goes beyond it he does not have God with him....verse 10: if anyone comes to you bringing a different doctrine.....

I am astonished that you are so promptly turning away from the one who called you in the grace of Christ and are going over to a different gospel - not that there is another gospel....but even if we ourselves or even an angel from heaven preaches to you a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let Gods curse be on him. I repeat again wha we declared before; anyone who preaches to you a gospel other than the one you were first given is to be under Gods curse. ( Galatians 1:6-9 New Jerusalem Bible)

fairchild

How interesting. Do you have a link to that website?

Oh and take a look at the thread I started earlier today, it is about the intl. bible students, and you just answered the question I asked in my thread.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/90824/1.ashx

jaffacake

http://www.jwreform.org./

I went from here to the Beth Sarim link on the right hand colums, then found JW reform discussion or something similar. I an ralphy on that board.

Hi Fairchild, Be careful, although Russell was benign compared with Rutherford and those since, his false teachings, borrowed from my old religion (Adventists) have a lot to answer for. Russell got the 1914 date in part from the Adventists, but also by measuring the main passage in the great pyramid of Giza...

I have some three or four excellent quotes from old watchtowers 1881 to 1946 if interested. They stand out as occasional beacons of wisdom and truth amongst a load of errors and lies published over 100 years.

fairchild

hi jaffa, thank you for the link and yes, I am interested in the quotes. Don't worry I will be careful (I think). I was aware of the fact that Russell had close connections with the adventists. What I'm interested in is to find out if the international bible students have changed their doctrines in the past, and what exactly they have to say about the bible in our modern times. It seems kind of neat though, to have a group which studies the bible without actually being an "organization". This is actually what feels attractive to me, so I'm doing some research on them.

jaffacake

Fairchild, Before I post pre-Rutherford quotes I cant resist this one I got from a Ray Franz book. It is during the period (1929-1962) when they did not understand Romans 13 correctly, as other Christins did. BTW I think there are many sects of JWs and Bible Students, Dawn Bible students etc....There are many millions of other Christians who are not part of organised religion, some meet with others, some do not. At prsent I worship and study alone due to uncertainties etc and being afraid to trust again. I sincerely love this quote (despite the Romans 13 error)Perhaps Fred Franz really knew the truth after all ?? LOL

Watchtower 1946 Nov 1 page 330, Article Let God Prove to be True

The divisive force among the Catholic and Protestant religionists of Christendom is the religious traditions which they follow. The truth of the Bible is a unifying power. After Christ Jesus prayed: ?Sanctify them through thy Word: thy Word is truth,?he immediately prayed that all his believers, those then following him and those yet due to believe, should be united in one, just as he and His heavenly Father are one (John 17:17-23)

How is disunity over each one?s individual interpretation of the Holy Scriptures now overcome or avoided? Is it because they are united around a visible human organization or around a visible human leader? The answer is No. It is because they recognize Jehovah God and Christ Jesus as The Higher Powers to whom every Christian soul must be subject for conscience? sake (Romans 13:1)

Hence Jehovah?s Witnesses do not claim to be what the religious Hierarchy claims their religious organization to be, namely, the one holding the magisterium or teaching office and hence ?the Divinely appointed Custodian and Interpreter of the Bible.

Another part of the article says:

The written Word of God does not therefore need the addition of traditions which are the private interpretations of man and of religious organisations. It is not on our own authority that we say the Bible is sufficient without such. The inspired Apostle, Paul, writes his faithful and fellow worker Timothy to that effect saying: ?from thy infancy thou hast known the Holy Scriptures, which can instruct thee to salvation, by the faith which is in Jesus Christ. All Scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice, that the man of God may be perfect, furnished to every good work. (2 Tim 3:15-17)

Had the oral traditions of religious men been necessary to complement the Canon of the Bible, Paul would not have said that the inspired Holy Scriptures were profitable to the point of making the men of God perfect in faith and devotion to God. It would have been inadequate and would have left the man of God unperfected?(quotes 2 Tim

jaffacake

Watchtower 1881 by the President C T Russell

..their organization was of Spirit; their law for the government of each was love, and all as a whole were put under obedience to ?the law of the Spirit? as it was expressed in the life, actions and words of their Lord.

..it is clearly seen that these present day churches?interpret and enforce the traditions of the elders which make void the Word of God. These take the place of the true Head of the Church ? Jesus and the true teacher and guide to all truth, the Holy Spirit. Hear the prophet Isaiah express it (chap 9:15)

This brings us to our second preposition, viz that all Christians should be joined to this organisation? But says one; Must I not join some organisation on earth, assent to some creed and have my name written on earth? No. Remember that Jesus is your pattern and teacher, and neither in his words or acts will you find any authority for binding yourselves with creeds or traditions of the elders, which all tend to make the word of God of none effect (Mark 7:13) and bring you under a bondage that will hinder your growth in grace and knowledge, and against which Paul warned you to stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ has made you free, and be not entangled with the yoke of bondage (Gal 5:1}

jaffacake

Watchtower 1882 April, Questions & Answers

We are strictly unsectarian?(read 1 Cor 3:1-4)?we have no creed (fence) to bind us together or keep others out of our company. The Bible is our only Standard, and its teachings our only creed?We are in fellowship with all Christians in whom we can recognise the Spirit of Christ, and especially with those who recognise the Bible as the only Standard. We do not require therefore that all should see just as we do in order to be called Christians, realising that growth and knowledge is a gradual process; nor do we see reason to expect that any but the Watchmen of Zion will ?see eye to eye (Isa 52:8) until that which is perfect is come..(1 Cor

If all Christians were to thus free themselves from prescribed creeds, and study the Word of God without denominational bias, truth and knowledge and real Christian fellowship and unity would result. The Spirit of the Head would pervade the unfettered members of the Body and sectarian pride would vanish.

jaffacake

Watchtower 1884 February

We belong to no earthly organization?we adhere only to that heavenly organization whose names are written in heave? (Heb 12:23 Luke 10:20)

What think you?...suppose?all man made creeds and forms ?and names were laid aside, or that all Christians met in the One name of Christ, and in earnest simplicity, studied HIS words under the direction of God?s Spirit and the explanations furnished in the Apostles writings, would there be long and serious differences, even of opinion?... And so, by whatsoever names men may call us, it matters not to us; we acknowledge none other name than the only name given under heaven and among men ? Jesus Christ. We call ourselves simply CHRISTIANS and we raise no fence to separate from us any who believe in the foundation stone of our building mentioned by Paul: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures; and those for whom this is not broad enough have no right to the name Christian.

jaffacake

WT 1895 15 September article ?How to Conduct Group Meetings?

Beware of organisation. It is wholly unnecessary. The Bible rules will be the only rules you will need. Do not seek to bind others? consciences and do not permit others to bind yours. Believe and obey so far as you can understand God?s word today, and so continue growing in grace and knowledge and love day by day.

Fairchild, It seems to me that because of the nature of man, nearly all Christian religions who may start with the best motives, very quickly move away from the true message of the Gospel. The Watchtower has become what it set up to oppose. It has its own disguised clergy and toned down inquisition etc. It is the master of disguise.

fairchild

Jaffa, wow, those quotes are mind blowing. I couldn't help thinking of what would happen, should someone print them out, (clearly quoting that they are from the WT, and inviting the reader to check for themselves) and put the printouts on people's chairs at a convention. This would sow a ton of disarray. Sorry, nasty thoughts..

That site, JWR, I like their general thought of following the JW teachings without following the GB, but it makes me wonder... what about the teachings such as "this generation", 607 BCE, etc.... I noticed that you are a recent member there. perhaps we will learn more about them in the near future. I really like the idea, just wondering about the 'wrong' teachings.. I will be browsing there some more. BTW, I like "ralphy", lol, it's cute.

No paradise Earth?

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