Posts by diamondblue1974

90

Christians - Convert me! I'm Pagan!

by Sirona in

jw
friends

following on from terry's thread about mind filters and being open minded....... i'm neo-pagan.

for a loose definition of my beliefs see here http://www.religioustolerance.org/neopaga1.htm.

but i'm willing to consider christian belief systems.. just recently i've been studying the jewish kabballah (qabalah).

diamondblue1974

Before I answer this point can I just clarify that you are making a contrast (as highlighted)?
If you are contrasting reverential kneeling against being humiliated then I agree. Not all kneeling is done out of being abased by another. In the example that I refer to it is a spontaneous reaction to being in the presence of someone/thing awesome.

Yes I was making a contrast between the two, I think that much was clear without the need for you to condescend matey.

I disagree. It is a common complaint and altogether very human. Every group tends to prefer their own deity, be it Pan, Ishtar, Jesus, Allah, Vishnu or George Dubya.

Yes but lets face it, according to most branches of Christianity if I dont accept Jesus as my saviour, I will be bird food wont I? - so my point still stands, it goes further than just human preference and jumps headlong into intolerance.

Of course not. What do you expect? You work in legal!

LOL touche Ross, I knew you would get me back for those comments about 'working in change management' and 'working in NHS' being oximorons, but joking aside, the point I made is valid.

God chose millenia back and He bides his time and He makes the change in the individual. Its not as if the individual is passive in the matter but neither do they actively "convert" themselves.

This could lead right into another discussion about predestination which really does deserve its own thread. So in your view is everyone saved? Or are some saved and some not?

Gary

33

Difference Between Catholics and Witnesses

by WTWizard in

i have recently seen one thread about the differences between the witnesses and those other religions.

so i will explain some of my earlier experiences as a catholic and contrast them to the witness experience.. my family was active as a catholic when i was about 6 or so.

we had to salute the flag, and we got to play with other children and go on class trips that also made major markers in life.

diamondblue1974

I can think of a two particular differences between Catholics and JWs.

The Catholics have been prepared to apologise when their priests abuse children. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6900129.stm
The Catholics largely do not seek to gag the victims with a gagging order upon settlement and compensation. http://www.silentlambs.org/newsletter/NewsLetterItem.cfm?SendoutID=136

Gary

90

Christians - Convert me! I'm Pagan!

by Sirona in

jw
friends

following on from terry's thread about mind filters and being open minded....... i'm neo-pagan.

for a loose definition of my beliefs see here http://www.religioustolerance.org/neopaga1.htm.

but i'm willing to consider christian belief systems.. just recently i've been studying the jewish kabballah (qabalah).

diamondblue1974

ever sacrificed their life so that their followers can have eternal life or can attain to salvation through grace?

Great point, Yes the God each year offers himself as a sacrifice to the land and is reborn at the Winter Solstice.

This can be seen as entirely synonymous with Christs sacrifice and then rebirth for the good of mankind but even in saying that, there have been numerous other examples or accounts of saviours which predate Christ himself. There are so many parallels between the Christ account and other pre Christ mythologies its hard not to reach a conclusion that the Christ account is but one of many accounts of saviours being born and dying a sacrificial death. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Christianity#Origins

That being said I dont wish to discount Christianity as being any less valid than any other belief system and I am not attempting to dissuade people from their own spiritual experiences; I do believe its about what works for you and what enables you to experience divinity in your own way.

Sirona's thread whilst asking for reasons to convert is merely trying to establish that there are so many common grounds between Paganism and Christianity that we should be seeking to establish common ground rather than being intolerant of each others paths. I dont think for one minute that any creator or creative spirit is going to kill anyone off just because they chose a different path to him or her and I abhor the suggestion of anything different. In my view there is nothing unique about any of the paths discussed.

Just my tupennys worth (although after all this typing I do think its worth £1 )

Gary

90

Christians - Convert me! I'm Pagan!

by Sirona in

jw
friends

following on from terry's thread about mind filters and being open minded....... i'm neo-pagan.

for a loose definition of my beliefs see here http://www.religioustolerance.org/neopaga1.htm.

but i'm willing to consider christian belief systems.. just recently i've been studying the jewish kabballah (qabalah).

diamondblue1974

You tell that to Jesus when he's killing your pagan ass!

I am rather surprised you didnt turn up earlier in this thread...your slacking nate, keep up!

Gary

90

Christians - Convert me! I'm Pagan!

by Sirona in

jw
friends

following on from terry's thread about mind filters and being open minded....... i'm neo-pagan.

for a loose definition of my beliefs see here http://www.religioustolerance.org/neopaga1.htm.

but i'm willing to consider christian belief systems.. just recently i've been studying the jewish kabballah (qabalah).

diamondblue1974

Neither do I. However its interesting to see how many who experience the Divine find themselves so awed by the experience that their natural reaction is one of reverence...

Ahh Divinity...I agree but the real problems come when peoples perception of divinity differ and one perception is deemed to be true and another conversely false, thus creating intolerance. Whether you experience the divine as Christ spirit or whether you experience it as the 'God, Goddess' or 'Great Spirit' shouldnt matter and doesnt to the majority of pagans.

Kneeling in terms of reverence and being made to feel unworthy however are to be contrasted as they are clearly different.

Going further, It tends to be Christians who suggest that their perception of divinity is the condition upon which enlightenment, rapture, resurrection, (amend to suit) depends and this is where the arguments arise. It leads to an almighty bun fight about whose God is the 'bestest' and whose God is the most powerful - personally I dont see the point.

Why should anyone have to convert to a particular path in order to be 'saved'?- Why cant spirituality be something that is free rather than imposed? (to suggest that I will lose my life if I dont convert is an imposition in my view.)

It makes no sense to me.

Gary

25

I adopted a very special Puppy. Pics...and do you have Tips?

by Sirona in

jw
friends

don't say "i told you so".. .

guide dogs for the blind need people to look after puppies until they are ready to be trained as guide dogs (until approx 12 months old).

the puppy walkers (adopters) need to provide a home and preliminary training for the pup.. .

diamondblue1974

A friend dropped round with their 17 week old pup last week and it pissed all over my laminate floor! Not impressed was I!

Ahh...we seem to have it good then...shes only 8 weeks old and already tells us when she needs a wee or a poo - she has the occasional accident but we are very lucky.

17 weeks old and still pissing the floor? Either they arent trying to house train it or it has something wrong with it.

I bet you werent happy lol

G

25

I adopted a very special Puppy. Pics...and do you have Tips?

by Sirona in

jw
friends

don't say "i told you so".. .

guide dogs for the blind need people to look after puppies until they are ready to be trained as guide dogs (until approx 12 months old).

the puppy walkers (adopters) need to provide a home and preliminary training for the pup.. .

diamondblue1974

no kitty

LMAO Poppy definately needs to learn this one - she will come off the worse if she doesnt, our cat is hard as nails.

G

25

I adopted a very special Puppy. Pics...and do you have Tips?

by Sirona in

jw
friends

don't say "i told you so".. .

guide dogs for the blind need people to look after puppies until they are ready to be trained as guide dogs (until approx 12 months old).

the puppy walkers (adopters) need to provide a home and preliminary training for the pup.. .

diamondblue1974

Re: I adopted a very special Puppy. Pics...and do you have Tips?

Whats this 'I' business?

Its a definate 'we' when I have to have my feet bitten, trainers chewed, floors peed on, coals chewed, trouser legs chewed, and hands bitten.

Shes adorable but shes a demon alright - its like the exorcist - a sweet innocent little girl turns into a demon - I am just waiting for the green puke!

G x

90

Christians - Convert me! I'm Pagan!

by Sirona in

jw
friends

following on from terry's thread about mind filters and being open minded....... i'm neo-pagan.

for a loose definition of my beliefs see here http://www.religioustolerance.org/neopaga1.htm.

but i'm willing to consider christian belief systems.. just recently i've been studying the jewish kabballah (qabalah).

diamondblue1974

I see myself much as the apostle Paul, the worst of sinners. I don't deserve my salvation in any way, it was given as a free gift.

Respectfully, I dont get this.

We were all created in the state we are in and I dont believe for one minute that either you or I are inherently evil or bad - sure we are not perfect but nonetheless I would prefer to believe that we wouldnt harm any of our fellow man intentionally.

So on this basis, and the fact that we were born this way I dont see why I should have to kneel and beg for forgiveness - dont get me wrong, I dont mean this in an arrogant way I just dont see how any creator would create me imperfect then condemn me for it. I dont see divinity that way at all.

This has always troubled me doctrinally and this is probably why I am not Christian. That being said, I am not saying that I dont respect Christianity as a valid belief system because I do but I see it no different, no better or no worse that Paganism. I do take exception to those that are intolerant of my path though.

Just my point of view

Peace

Gary

28

Why no warnings against "fading" in the literature?

by sir82 in

jw
friends

it has been pretty firmly established that the wts monitors ex-jw discussion boards generally, this one in particular.. on this forum and others, the strategy of "fading" is often discussed.

fading can be defined as gradually lessening one's activity in the congregation to the point where he virtually "disappears", becoming inactive & attending virtually no meetings.

thus, a more or less "normal" life can be achieved without the stigma and privations of disfellowshipping.. other ideas on how to get around the pain of disfellowshipping discussed on this type of forum have been discussed, if not in the literature, at least in boe letters.

diamondblue1974

I doubt the WT Society would want to stir up a potential hornets nest.

If a JW were to leave, I would bet the WT Society would prefer that they just quietly go.

I agree totally with this JG.

G