slimboyfat

Joined

• started 538 topics
• posted 17,634 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by slimboyfat

• 
  6

  Trump: "Too many holidays"

  by SydBarrett in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  “too many non-working holidays in america.

  it is costing our country $billions of dollars to keep all of these businesses closed,” the president wrote in a truth social post..

  “the workers don’t want it either,” he added.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  Too right, let’s end weekends and reintroduce child labour too. Some people say children shouldn’t be made to work? Let the market decide! Don’t like your working conditions? Then why not start your own business and make your own rules, loser.
• 
  54

  Predictions for the next decade?

  by jehovaxx in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  as it’s nearly the new year my prediction over the next decade or so will see the sense of urgency dwindle.

  then some huge huge changes.

  for example by 2034 in a decades time, they will have address the 1914 issue and will come out and say we can’t be dogmatic.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  Predictions like that seem to assume those in leadership don’t really believe in the religion and only really care about money. I can’t see any evidence for that. Most of the leaders do seem to believe in the religion. They care about money too, of course, because if they run out of it that will harm the organisation. But saying they want money at the expense of the organisation doesn’t make much sense.
• 
  16

  Few JW leader have children

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it’s been discussed before that few jw leaders, past and present, have had children.

  this is in contrast with other groups, such as the mormons, whose leaders have had a lot of children.

  i wonder if this has impacted jw growth.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  Ah, how did I miss that!

  I found similar on Reddit. Two of those six children were step children, apparently.

  Guy Pierce might be more interesting than the surviving GB members. He had two children with his first wife, then they divorced in early 1976. Coincidence, right after the 1975 debacle? He the married his second wife Penny, who also had two children. Then they had two children together. His widow Penny was interviewed at last year's convention. The unusual thing about Guy is that he has grandchildren. One of them shared some interesting information on Cedars' blog, indicating he was a pretty normal grandpa. But he does look a bit like Herman Munster to me.

  He looked like Grampa Munster (uncanny!) not Herman Munster.

  Does anybody have more information on any of the other GB members, even if just to rule out that they had children?
• 
  3

  After watching this. All I can say is be thankful you were a JW.

  by joe134cd in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  https://youtu.be/tmcl4gizjii?si=xoapw8c1nug_ffuz.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  The video, audio, and even the script appear to be AI generated. Can it be trusted to be accurate?

  It’s probably accurate in the main points but I wouldn’t trust AI on any details without double checking.
• 
  17

  Applying the facial hair change in New Order portrayals

  by careful in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have a hard time watching the org's vids and reading the publications.

  however, that's not the case with others here.

  hence this post.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  When was the announcement on beards made?

  From what I can find it was December 2023.

  So the image in the January 2024 Watchtower is in a publication that is dated after the announcement, but it would have been released before the announcement, and probably produced by the artist some time before that.

  But I love the idea of a bearded patriarch being resurrected to Norway for light refreshments and a Bible Study on a balcony overlooking a fjord. 🥖 🥤 🏔️
• 
  16

  Few JW leader have children

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it’s been discussed before that few jw leaders, past and present, have had children.

  this is in contrast with other groups, such as the mormons, whose leaders have had a lot of children.

  i wonder if this has impacted jw growth.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  It says Schroeder had no children, which is false.

  It says Geoffrey Jackson is “believed to be married”. I think it is public information that he has been married twice and his first wife died.

  Why does it say Samuel Herd “was married before full time service”? He remained married.

  It is wrong when it says that the trend has been toward celibacy since Knorr. If anything the opposite. Most GB members since Knorr have been married.

  It says most GB members “remained unmarried”. This is false, most GB members have been married.

  I don’t think it’s correct that Rutherford had his son before joining the Bible Students.

  I am pretty sure it is wrong that Morris’s sons have been disfellowshipped. Quite the opposite, the gossip has been that they remain good JWs in the face of their father’s removal.

  Why does it say of Rutherford’s son: “Malcolm Cammerer, before marriage”? Does it think he changed name after marriage? Or he was born before his parents married? Or what?

  It doesn’t mention that Guy Pierce had children.

  Some of the other stated facts may also be false but I am not in a position to say for sure because of the gaps mentioned above.

  All in all pretty poor. Do not rely on ChatGPT!
• 
  16

  Few JW leader have children

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it’s been discussed before that few jw leaders, past and present, have had children.

  this is in contrast with other groups, such as the mormons, whose leaders have had a lot of children.

  i wonder if this has impacted jw growth.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  A good chance to test ChatGPT !

  I asked

  Can you give me a list of Jehovah’s Witness leaders, including presidents of the Watch Tower Society, and Governing Body members, and list the number of children each had

  And this was the response:

  Here is a list of key leaders of Jehovah’s Witnesses, focusing on:

  1. Presidents of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, the main legal entity used by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

  2. Prominent members of the Governing Body, especially those who played notable roles historically or are currently active.

  3. Where known, number of children is listed — but note that many Watch Tower officials, especially since the mid-20th century, have remained unmarried and childless due to their belief that full-time service is a higher calling, particularly given the belief in the imminence of Armageddon.

  ---

  📘 Watch Tower Society Presidents

  Name	Term	Children
  Charles Taze Russell	1881–1916	0
  Joseph Franklin Rutherford	1917–1942	1 (a son, Malcolm Cammerer, before marriage)
  Nathan Homer Knorr	1942–1977	0
  Frederick William Franz	1977–1992	0
  Milton George Henschel	1992–2000	0
  Don Alden Adams	2000–2016	Unknown (likely 0; no record of a spouse or children)
  Robert Ciranko	2016–present	Unknown (very little public personal information)

  ---

  👥 Prominent Governing Body Members

  (Only a few have publicly known information regarding children. Most remained unmarried.)

  Name	Lifespan (if applicable)	Children
  Raymond Franz (left in 1980)	1922–2010	0 (married, no children)
  Fred Franz	1893–1992	0
  Milton Henschel	1920–2003	0
  Albert D. Schroeder	1911–2006	0
  George D. Gangas	1896–1994	0
  Lyman A. Swingle	1910–2001	0
  William Lloyd Barry	1916–1999	0
  Samuel F. Herd	1935–	Unknown (was married before full-time service)
  Gerrit Lösch	1941–	0 (married, no children)
  Stephen Lett	1949–	0 (married, no children)
  David Splane	1944–	0 (married, no children)
  Anthony Morris III (recently removed)	~1950s–	2 sons
  Kenneth Cook	–	Unknown
  Mark Sanderson	1965–	0 (never married)
  Geoffrey Jackson	1955–	Unknown (believed to be married; children unknown)

  ---

  ⚠️ Notes:

  • The trend since Knorr has been toward celibacy or childlessness among top leaders, partly due to the increasing emphasis on "not marrying in this system of things" and the nearness of the end.

  • Early leaders like Rutherford had children before they were involved with the Witness movement (he became active in the 1890s but fathered his son earlier).

  • Anthony Morris III is one of the few modern Governing Body members known to have children — both sons were reportedly disfellowshipped, which was a topic of public interest.

  Would you like this list in a downloadable format (PDF or spreadsheet)?

  2/2
• 
  16

  Few JW leader have children

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it’s been discussed before that few jw leaders, past and present, have had children.

  this is in contrast with other groups, such as the mormons, whose leaders have had a lot of children.

  i wonder if this has impacted jw growth.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  Compare and contrast with Mormon leaders!

  (Including children who died in childhood)
  

  Joseph Smith (d. 1944) - 9 with his wife, perhaps dozens with other secret wives

  Brigham Young (d. 1877) - 57 with 56 wives

  John Taylor (d. 1887) - 34 with 8 wives

  Wilford Woodruff (d. 1898) - 34 with 9 wives

  Lorenzo Snow (d. 1901) - 42 with 9 wives

  Joseph F. Smith (d. 1918) - 48 (43 biological, 5 adopted) with 6 wives

  Heber Grant (d. 1945) - 12 with 3 wives

  George Albert Smith (d. 1951) - 3 with 1 wife

  David O. McKay (d. 1970) - 7 with 1 wife

  Joseph Fielding Smith (d. 1972) - 11, had 3 wives (consecutive)

  Harold B. Lee (d. 1973) - 2, had 2 wives (consecutive)

  Spencer Kimball (d. 1985) - 4 with 1 wife

  Ezra Benson Taft (d. 1994) - 6 with 1 wife

  Howard Hunter (d. 1995) - 3, had 2 wives (consecutive)

  Gordon B. Hinckley (d. 2008) - 5 with 1 wife

  Thomas S. Monson (d. 2018) - 3 with 1 wife

  Russell M. Nelson (incumbent) - 10, has had 2 wives

  Not a single one without children.
• 
  16

  Few JW leader have children

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it’s been discussed before that few jw leaders, past and present, have had children.

  this is in contrast with other groups, such as the mormons, whose leaders have had a lot of children.

  i wonder if this has impacted jw growth.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  The notice of Guy Pierce’s death in the Watchtower in 2014 said the following:

  Guy Pierce was born in Auburn, California, U.S.A., on November 6, 1934, and was baptized in 1955. He married his beloved wife, Penny, in 1977 and raised a family. His experience as a family man contributed to his fatherly manner. By 1982 he and Penny were busy in the pioneer work, and in 1986 he began 11 years of service as a circuit overseer in the United States.

  It doesn’t even say how many children he had, or boys or girls. Does anyone know? I guess the fact they weren’t mentioned specifically perhaps means they didn’t get baptised or else left JWs. I vaguely remember that he had a granddaughter who was not a JW who made some online posts and said he as far as she was concerned he was a good grandfather, which caused some discussion. I may be misremembering these details.
• 
  16

  Few JW leader have children

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it’s been discussed before that few jw leaders, past and present, have had children.

  this is in contrast with other groups, such as the mormons, whose leaders have had a lot of children.

  i wonder if this has impacted jw growth.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  Yes, I agree with all that no-zombie.

  Another interesting aspect is that the exceptions in themselves are telling.

  Rutherford had a son but became estranged from him to the point that his son wanted nothing to do with JWs and he wouldn’t answer any questions about his father from curious people who tracked him down.

  Albert Schroeder had a son but it was an accident that breached the bethel no child policy and he only retained his position in bethel because of his status and connections. (I think he was already Gilead instructor when his wife became pregnant) His son by some accounts had a rather curious upbringing being the only child in bethel. In adulthood the society paid for him to study law, making him exceptional yet again in an organisation that discourages higher education.

  Did Lyman Swingle have children? I have a vague recollection that he might have done, and possibly Lloyd Barry. Or I might be confusing this because I also heard that Swingle, Barry and a few others had college education.

  I have greater suspicion that Guy Pierce did have a family. I should go and read his life story to find out. The very fact that it’s so vague whether Pierce and a handful of others had children is telling because it does not feature prominently in their public biographies. This is true of life stories in the magazines in general where mention of children definitely comes after outlining their theocratic career, almost as an apologetic addendum.

  Tony Morris was one of the few JW leaders ever to have children. He was atypical as a GB member in being a convert who was elevated to the position, and of course also unusual in being unceremoniously removed from the GB.

  As for the newer ones, I guess the general assumption is that most are lifelong Bethelites and therefore don’t have children. It doesn’t even seem to arise as a question when people are appointed. People are interested if they are married, how long they’ve been at bethel and so on, but whether they have children seldom comes up because it’s unlikely.