slimboyfat

Joined

• started 539 topics
• posted 17,649 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by slimboyfat

• 
  73

  "Jehovah" In The New Testament.

  by LostintheFog1999 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i see they have updated their list of translations or versions where some form of yhwh or jhvh appears in the new testament.. https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  You really are indeed a funny guy with a real WTS ant colony mentality ΙΑΩ was not his original reading of the Septuagint, but in all probability that of a marginal heterodox Jewish sect. For mainstream Judaism associated with the Jerusalem temple cult and the Sanhedrin, the everyday "use" of YHWH was completely forbidden.

  Is sarcasm part of your religious faith, or just an added benefit? 😜

  Where did you get this information about Yaho not being widespread or the original rendering of the divine name in the LXX/OG? The pronunciation was widespread over a long period of time because it is attested in a variety of sources from different places over a period of centuries, from Roman historians to inscriptions, from Bible manuscripts to church fathers and onomastica.

  Emanuel Tov is a senior scholar of the Hebrew Bible and the Septuagint.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emanuel_Tov

  He argues in favour of Yaho being the original rendering of the divine name in the LXX/OG, following the work of Skehan and Stegemann, as follows:

  Therefore, according to Stegemann and Skehan, ΙΑΩ reflects the earliest attested stage in the history of the LXX translation, when the name of God was represented by its transliteration, just like any other personal name in the LXX.36 Skehan37 provided important early parallels for the use of ΙΑΩ and similar forms representing the Tetragrammaton: Diodorus of Sicily, Bibliotheca historica I,29,2 (1 BCE) records that Moses referred his laws to τὸν Ιαω ἐπικαλούμενον θεόν; likewise, in his commentary on Ps 2:2, Origen speaks about Ιαη (PG 12:1104) and Ιαω (GCS, Origenes 4:53); and two onomastica used ΙΑΩ as an explanation of Hebrew theophoric names.38 The later magical papyri likewise invoke ΙΑΩ. In a similar vein, Stegemann gives a long list of arguments in favor of the assumption of the priority of the transliteration.39 This transliteration reflects an unusual pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton such as known from the Elephantine papyri 40 יהו

  However, there is no convincing evidence in favor of any one explanation, but it seems to me that the view of Skehan and Stegemann seems more plausible in light of the parallels provided. This argument serves as support for the view that ΙΑΩ in 4QpapLXXLevb reflects the OG form for יהוה This view is also maintained, in great detail, in recent studies by Shaw, who also mentions other scholars preferring ΙΑΩ, and by Vasileiadis.41

  Tov, E. (2023). P. Vindob. G 39777 (Symmachus) and the Use of Divine Names in Greek Scripture Texts. In The Textual History of the Bible from the Dead Sea Scrolls to the Biblical Manuscripts of the Vienna Papyrus Collection (pp. 302-315). Brill.
  
• 
  73

  "Jehovah" In The New Testament.

  by LostintheFog1999 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i see they have updated their list of translations or versions where some form of yhwh or jhvh appears in the new testament.. https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  The evidence is that ordinary Jews in the first century used the divine name in the form Yaho. It is natural to assume that Jesus used the divine name whenever the occasion arose, unless there is evidence to the contrary. There is no record in the NT that Jesus subscribed to any superstition that the divine name was to be avoided.

  And I think there is specific evidence in the gospels that Jesus used the divine name. When Jesus was tempted by Satan in the wilderness he cited three Bible texts that included the divine name. It’s difficult to think this wasn’t deliberate (“the name of Jehovah is a strong tower” Prov 18.10) and equally difficult to believe that having selected texts with the divine name that he then avoided using it.

  Matt 4

  4 But he answered: “It is written: ‘Man must live, not on bread alone, but on every word that comes from Jehovah’s mouth.’”

  7 Jesus said to him: “Again it is written: ‘You must not put Jehovah your God to the test.’”

  10 Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”
  
  
  
• 
  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  Since he was concerned about how much he would get for it, perhaps he really is cutting back financially now?

  I think it’s just in his nature to make sure he gets the advantage in every situation. Even a fair deal for the other person leaves him feeling short changed. It’s how he treated people on here, his wife, his in-laws, his landlord, getting others to pay in advance for his book, and on and on … The idea of someone getting his car for a penny less than he perceives its worth would just annoy him too much. I really wonder what he pays Tibor. It can’t be much, and he probably resents the little he does pay.
• 
  73

  "Jehovah" In The New Testament.

  by LostintheFog1999 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i see they have updated their list of translations or versions where some form of yhwh or jhvh appears in the new testament.. https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  The NT is all about Jesus so it makes sense that the name Jesus appears so frequently. To some this might be evidence that Jesus in some way replaces Jehovah of the OT, but this is not a very careful reading of the NT text. All the writings of the NT make it abundantly clear that the whole purpose of Jesus’ mission was to glorify God and his name (John 17.26) and that the exaltation of Jesus is ‘to the glory of God the Father’ (Phil 2.11).

  When you realise that the name Jesus (then pronounced Yahoshua) means “Yaho saves”, and that the first Christians were very aware of this fact (Matt 1.21, Acts 4.12), then you don’t count the instances of the name Jesus and his God Jehovah in separate tallies. Because every instance of the name Jesus (Yahoshua) is in fact a reminder, to the first Christians, and to us if we read the NT carefully, that Jesus is the saviour that Jehovah sent into he world to save mankind.
• 
  73

  "Jehovah" In The New Testament.

  by LostintheFog1999 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i see they have updated their list of translations or versions where some form of yhwh or jhvh appears in the new testament.. https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  We only have one tiny manuscript of the LXX that contains the divine name in the Greek form Yaho (photo above) yet Emanuel Tov, a leading textual critic of the Hebrew Bible/LXX, argues that Yaho was probably the original form of the divine name in the LXX. This is because there is good circumstantial evidence to support the idea. Even if we didn’t have the fragment with Yaho in it, the circumstantial evidence would be strong that the early LXX used the divine name Yaho. Of the earliest NT manuscripts we have, none of them can confidently be dated earlier than the year 200 CE. (See God’s Library: The Archaeology of the Earliest Christian Manuscripts (2018) by Brent Nongbri) By 200 CE the divine name was no longer in use in the LXX, so if it was used in the early NT, then we have no manuscripts from the era before 200 CE which would correspond to the period when the divine name was used. So we don’t have any direct manuscript evidence either way for how the NT handled the divine name prior to 200 CE. We do have manuscript evidence for the LXX in this earlier period and it did use the divine name.

  A copy of the NT with the divine name Yaho might turn up one day, but even if it doesn’t there are good reasons to believe the name did occur in the early NT text. Because, if we are being reasonable about it, if Jews used the divine name Yaho in the first century, in their texts and also verbally, as the evidence suggests, then the early Christians must have done so as well because they emerged from the Jewish community. Plus it makes sense of so much of the biblical data that original use of the divine name is key to understanding much about the NT. A striking example is the often quoted Psalm 110 which in the extant manuscripts confusingly reads, “the Lord said to my Lord”, whereas the early LXX, and presumably the NT as well, would have read, “Yaho said to my Lord”. Another is the fact that the meaning of the name Jesus would have been much more intelligible to people who pronounced it as Yahoshua, and who also used the divine name Yaho. The connection between God Yaho, and his sent forth saviour Yahoshua would have been obvious, as apparently it was. (See Matt 1.21 and Acts 4.12)
• 
  73

  "Jehovah" In The New Testament.

  by LostintheFog1999 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i see they have updated their list of translations or versions where some form of yhwh or jhvh appears in the new testament.. https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  Written in Paleo-Hebrew, not translated or transliterated into Greek. It was considered unpronounceable and forbidden to be changed even in text or spoken.

  The divine name was translated in the early LXX into the Greek form Yaho.

  Emanuel Tov notes that in this manuscript a second scribe inserted the four-letter Tetragrammaton where the first scribe left spaces large enough for the six-letter word Κύριος

  Tov argues that the early LXX used the divine name transliterated into Greek.

  https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/49646926/293.Symm-div-25-subm.open-libre.pdf?1476654107=&response-content-disposition=inline%3B+filename%3D293_P_Vindob_G_39777_Symmachus_and_the_U.pdf&Expires=1684366743&Signature=SaCLH0cP8z85NP-7bvzT-RBOI4KLf2JsoWXEQwDQC0cnoVpnz2ZSwJ~stgi1hngwLad2AOGxq7RmafHCdxbr7xS3g7gon61rQlweN1Qw-T80PGNK8uRA8hcVKzQQM9WOvyJFtwsZzUvgMcsanLwDwu8WkE4kSxaEHvgBYeGl3cTUYSEMIFhkRwVMHDWHIi3~nkrKO8e77CbzNuXxjojMJ6i9IvJIUgfUNMmAUE4j9KxoIqany1cpLTulLpNAauPgmf1hUAQrWMFzz1ln0~PvH1YERcbLMc7XhkSbf0FpP2kkXFnHjfRzYmbe0-39zjIEwqK1ZsqI8mUJGMPq3vs1oA__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJLOHF5GGSLRBV4ZA

  Ordinary Jews in the time of Jesus used the form of the divine name Yaho. This is shown by 1) the statement from the Greek historian Diodorus that Jews called their God Yaho, 2) the Leviticus fragment of the LXX from the first century CE with the divine name transliterated into Greek IAW, pronounced Yaho, 3) entries in early onomastica that show the form of the divine name persisted in the early Christianity. The idea that no Jews were using the divine name in Jesus’ day is erroneous. While some Jews avoided the name, others were still using it in this period.

  
  
• 
  12

  Anthony ,Tony , Morris where is he ? How is he ? Anyone ?

  by smiddy3 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  has anybody any information as to the whereabouts or the health of anthony morris ?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  (Holds up match and blows out the flame)

  Poof!
• 
  50

  To All Those Keen To Tell Us About Their Beliefs

  by Simon in

  1. forum
  2. announcements

  we seem to have had an influx of religiots - the people who want to tell us all about how we / the wts / whoever are wrong, wrong, wrong about everything and how right they are.

  they obviously have special insight, or voices (probably voices, right?

  ) telling them the real truth.. as proof, there is inevitably a wall of random scripture references and quotes.. sorry, but we're not here for that.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  After William Miller got the 1843/4 prediction wrong he went around the country apologising to people he misled for his mistake. That stands out as pretty unusual behaviour for an end time prophet. Apparently he really believed in his prediction, but acknowledged he had got it wrong and, instead of trying to rationalise it, attempted to make amends. I’d never heard about that before, and I don’t see anything about it on Wikipedia, but I read it in the book Protestants: Radicals Who Made the Modern World (2018) by Alec Ryrie,
• 
  20

  Curtailing zoom

  by road to nowhere in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  co visit, so right from the horse's mouth ( or somewhere).

  too many are staying on zoom, missing face to face encouragement.

  look for the elders to implement changes.. also people at the door are so receptive and glad to see us.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  I think just over a third are still on Zoom here, roughly 22 on Zoom to 42 in the KH.

  I thought the GB wouldn’t dare take away Zoom, but who knows, maybe they are crazy and controlling enough to do it, regardless it it loses them 10 to 20% of members.

  On the other hand, there were always people ‘on the phone link’, even before the pandemic, so presumably there will still be some provision for people at home. Most people can make some sort of case why they can’t get in to the KH. So presumably there will always be Zoom, or something like it. Some elders might be strict or obnoxious about it, but in my experience anyone who said they needed the ‘phone link’ got it.

  I know a congregation nearby that as recently as a couple of months ago reverted to Zoom meetings for a couple of weeks because too many people caught covid all at once. This decision was apparently taken by the local elders. I don’t know if they were given permission or took the decision unilaterally. But as far as I know it’s a bit of an outlier.

  They may resort to Zoom in future in cases of heavy snowfall or similar adverse weather, I would suspect.

  In short, who knows what they’ll do with Zoom in future, it’s unpredictable.
• 
  50

  To All Those Keen To Tell Us About Their Beliefs

  by Simon in

  1. forum
  2. announcements

  we seem to have had an influx of religiots - the people who want to tell us all about how we / the wts / whoever are wrong, wrong, wrong about everything and how right they are.

  they obviously have special insight, or voices (probably voices, right?

  ) telling them the real truth.. as proof, there is inevitably a wall of random scripture references and quotes.. sorry, but we're not here for that.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  I've yet to find anyone start a religious group and claim to have insight that A, B or C is going to happen, which is super important because it will be the precursor to The End™ happening, but that it will occur at any other time but the one in which the author is living.

  Isaac Newton, who was extremely into his Bible prophecy, apparently predicted the end for 2060, or, to put it more precisely, that 2060 was the latest date it could possibly be. If I recall correctly, this date was arrived at by adding 1260 day/years from Revelation to the coronation of Charlemagne in 800 AD.

  Charlemagne also figured in the Nazi political eschatology as the so-called first Reich was allegedly dated from Charlemagne in 800 to 1800, the second Reich under Bismarck in 1871 to 1917, and the Third Reich from 1933, which was intended to last 1000 years, but was defeated after just 12 years, in 1945.