Posts by slimboyfat

169

Are the statistics out yet?

by slimboyfat in

isn’t it about time they released the report for the service year?

or have they stopped publishing it?

did they released selected figures at the annual meeting as they usually do, such as the memorial attendance or record number of pioneers?

Your point about population growth is true. It doesn’t alter the fact that JWs are growing while most other groups are declining. That’s all I claimed and that’s what you originally objected to. Now you call comparisons “simplistic”? In what respect?

As I said above, my claim was that JWs are growing while other churches are declining. I at no time claimed there were no reasons for that fact. Of course there are reasons, and preaching, disfellowshipping and other factors are involved.

At the same time, it’s worth noting that Christadelphians and Brethren also disfellowship and yet they are declining. So disfellowshipping alone doesn’t seem to be a magic bullet for growth.

Most wealthy countries are secularising at an accelerating rate and most churches are experiencing significant declines. In that environment it is noteworthy that JWs have thus far managed to keep growing. I doubt they will be able to defy gravity forever, however, and I would expect they will start declining too, at some point, because the social forces producing secularisation are strong.

I’d recommend Ronald Inglehart’s recent book Religion’s Sudden Decline for an overview of the extent of secularisation in recent decades and the reasons for it.

76

Front row seats watching the collapse of watchtower

by Indoubtbigtime in

i’m a pimo ministerial servant and i won’t fade because i want to keep my front row seats watching what happens next few years.. my predictions are that this current governing body will slowly die off and the current younger helpers will be the next gb.

they will eventually have new light that they were wrong about 1914 and the overlapping generations.. the new light will be something on the lines of the last days are now because of king of north king of south pushing each other etc etc.

they will do their very best to burry old literature and try to change the past trying to make it sound like they were right all along just as they have done for 150 years now.

slimboyfat

How did they increase 3% in the US in '21 per google which was significant growth and their largest % increase since 1990. Is this accurate or due to the Covid pandemic and fear? Must have been fear factor like 9/11.

It was partly a bounce back from the decrease of the previous years.

76

Front row seats watching the collapse of watchtower

by Indoubtbigtime in

i’m a pimo ministerial servant and i won’t fade because i want to keep my front row seats watching what happens next few years.. my predictions are that this current governing body will slowly die off and the current younger helpers will be the next gb.

they will eventually have new light that they were wrong about 1914 and the overlapping generations.. the new light will be something on the lines of the last days are now because of king of north king of south pushing each other etc etc.

they will do their very best to burry old literature and try to change the past trying to make it sound like they were right all along just as they have done for 150 years now.

slimboyfat

Well I used to think that, but personally I think society itself has better chance of collapse than Watchtower in the near to medium term. And for that spectacle we may well have front row seats whether we like it or not. The two may be related too, inasmuch as Watchtower and other apocalyptic religions may benefit from societal disruption, only caveat being, if societal disjunction becomes too severe then the Watchtower variety of apocalypticism may be too tame and conformist to meet the needs of widespread dissatisfaction with the current ‘system of things’.

169

Are the statistics out yet?

by slimboyfat in

isn’t it about time they released the report for the service year?

or have they stopped publishing it?

did they released selected figures at the annual meeting as they usually do, such as the memorial attendance or record number of pioneers?

slimboyfat

Sanchy my argument was that JWs are growing in comparison with other churches that are declining. (Which Jeffro tried to contradict by discrediting Watchtower figures and then selectively quoting census figures.) It was never my argument that there is “no reason” for the fact that JWs are growing while other churches are declining. Their preaching activity is definitely one important reason. Somebody else mentioned disfellowshipping that keeps people in line. That’s definitely a factor too. Wars, economic turmoil and other crises are also factors that affect all religions, and apocalyptic religions are likely to benefit from more than others. That’s likely a significant factor too in countries where that applies.

My own observation is that most churches have suffered a significant loss in membership and attendance due to the pandemic, the exceptions being Jehovah’s Witnesses and Seventh-day Adventists who have grown slightly.

169

Are the statistics out yet?

by slimboyfat in

isn’t it about time they released the report for the service year?

or have they stopped publishing it?

did they released selected figures at the annual meeting as they usually do, such as the memorial attendance or record number of pioneers?

slimboyfat

All I have argued in this thread is that JW growth is better than other groups. It’s this point you contradicted me on on page 3

The JW numbers look “bad” … until you compare them with most other Christian groups which are in severe decline in the west. Compared with other Christian groups the growth of JWs bucks the trend of decline.

To which you replied

No. Not a valid representation of my position at all. I have explained the reasons previously and you either don’t understand, or you ignore the reasons why JW rates of growth seem higher than for other denominations because it goes against your narrative.

Now you’re saying something else. Fine. My point is that JWs are growing while most other groups are declining. You’ve given me the opportunity to prove that from census data itself, which demonstrates it even better than I impinged. So it wasn’t entirely unproductive.

42

Have you ever been on a congregation picnic?

by LostintheFog1999 in

were you ever on a congregation picnic?

i was on several occasions.. the arrangements were often announced from the platform after the closing song and prayer by the last elder up on the platform.. sometimes it was included in the service meeting announcements as "on saturday we're meeting at 10.00am at the kingdom hall for field service, and after field service for anyone who wishes, especially for the younger ones, we will be having a congregation picnic meeting at the beach carpark on seaview road.".

well, according to the new elders manual you won't be hearing those words again.

slimboyfat

For some reason, I read this thread heading as saying: “have you ever seen a congregation panic?” and expected an unusual story to follow. A couple of times it’s caught me now. 😂

169

Are the statistics out yet?

by slimboyfat in

isn’t it about time they released the report for the service year?

or have they stopped publishing it?

did they released selected figures at the annual meeting as they usually do, such as the memorial attendance or record number of pioneers?

slimboyfat

Jeffro you are the one who said other churches count attendees as members. This is not the case. I asked for an example, you supplied none. You now seem to be arguing that other churches have more adherents than members. Possibly, I don’t know, because ‘adherent’ needs to be defined in order to be compared. Different churches use different measurements, and they call their measurements different things.

The point I am making, and that you originally objected to, is that JWs are doing better than most other churches. This is clearly the case whatever measure you use. You disputed this by claiming that JWs don’t present accurate growth figures, and then you referenced the relative decline (compared to the population as a whole) of JWs in the Australian census numbers between 2016 and 2021 to make your point. Great! That’s something concrete we can work with. Lets compare all the churches using your preferred data from the Australian census. Here are the results.

Anglicans down from 3,101,200 to 2,496,300 a decrease of 604,900 or 19.5%

Baptists up from 345,100 to 347,300 an increase of 2200 or 0.6%

Catholics down from 5,291,800 to 5,075,900 a decrease of 215,900 or 4.1%

Churches of Christ down from 39,600 to 35,900 a decrease of 3700 or 9.3%

Jehovah’s Witnesses up from 82,500 to 84,400 an increase of 1900 or 2.3%

Mormons down from 61,600 to 57,900 a decrease of 3700 or 6.0%

Lutherans down from 174,000 to 145,900 a decrease of 28,100 or 16.1%

Eastern Orthodox down from 582,800 to 535,500 a decrease of 47,300 or 8.1%

Pentecostals down from 260,600 to 259,800 a decrease of 900 or 0.3%

Presbyterian and Reformed down from 526,700 to 414,900 a decrease of 111,800 or 21.2%

Salvation Army down from 48,900 to 35,400 a decrease of 13,500 or 27.6%

Seventh-day Adventists up from 62,900 to 63,700 an increase of 800 or 1.3%

Uniting Church down from 870,200 to 673,300 a decrease of 196,900 or 22.6%

Or to put that in descending order from the group with the highest growth to the group with the largest decrease:

Jehovah’s Witnesses + 2.3%

Seventh-day Adventists +1.3%

Baptists +0.6%

Pentecostals -0.3%

Catholics -4.1%

Mormons -6.0%

Eastern Orthodox -8.1%

Churches of Christ -9.3%

Lutherans -16.1%

Anglicans -19.5%

Presbyterian and Reformed -21.2%

Uniting Church -22.6%

Salvation Army -27.6%

Jeffro, seriously, according to those numbers, are JWs doing better, or worse, than other Christian groups? Straightforward answer please.

169

Are the statistics out yet?

by slimboyfat in

isn’t it about time they released the report for the service year?

or have they stopped publishing it?

did they released selected figures at the annual meeting as they usually do, such as the memorial attendance or record number of pioneers?

slimboyfat

Duplicate post

169

Are the statistics out yet?

by slimboyfat in

isn’t it about time they released the report for the service year?

or have they stopped publishing it?

did they released selected figures at the annual meeting as they usually do, such as the memorial attendance or record number of pioneers?

slimboyfat

Jeffro you are the one who said other churches count attendees as members. This is not the case. I asked for an example, you supplied none. You now seem to be arguing that other churches have more adherents than members. Possibly, I don’t know, because ‘adherent’ needs to be defined consistently in order to be compared. Different churches use different measurements and call their measurements different things.

The point I am making, and that you originally objected to, is that JWs are doing better than most other churches. You disputed this by claiming that JWs don’t present accurate growth figures, and then you referenced the relative decline (compared to the population as a whole) of JWs in the Australian census numbers between 2016 and 2021 to make your point. Great! That’s something concrete we can work with. Lets compare all the churches using your preferred measure from the Australian census. Here are the results.