slimboyfat

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Posts by slimboyfat

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  192

  Question for SBF

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  slimboyfat, it appears that wts is going, gone digital.

  can you show your view what is wts next move after they are completely gone from kings county and settled in warwick?

  - this thread is your if you want it..

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  slimboyfat

  Yes Mormon activity rates average around 30%, making about 4.5 million active members worldwide.
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  92

  Does Morality Exist?

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  some people believe that stealing, lying and killing, is not moral.

  some people don't.. does morality exist?

  if so, prove it..

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  slimboyfat

  Depends what you mean. Are there absolute moral standards? If there is a God then yes, there may be. If not, then no.

  If there are no absolute moral standards is it worth having moral standards at all? Yes I think so. Why should morality need to be absolute in order to be valuable or desirable?

  It's like making sand castles. Can we make absolutely perfect sand castles? No we can't. Does that mean there's no point making sand castles at all?

  It seems an odd proposition that making sand castles would only be worthwhile if we make absolutely perfect sand castles. Why should building an ethical outlook be any different?
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  192

  Question for SBF

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  slimboyfat, it appears that wts is going, gone digital.

  can you show your view what is wts next move after they are completely gone from kings county and settled in warwick?

  - this thread is your if you want it..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  I don't hope JWs collapse. What I hope for is that they stop shunning and concentrate on positive aspects of their heritage that people can be proud of.

  In terms of growth or decline I am just interested in interesting developments. Until recently I probably had a more positive view of JW growth than many. I think they have done amazingly well to grow as much and as fast as they have. They are much more successful than the Mormons for example. They have been around 50 years less than the Mormons and yet have about twice as many active members. Plus JWs are much more evenly spread across the globe than Mormons.

  Watchtower was one of the most, or arguably the most successful publishing organisation the world has ever seen. The Watchtower magazine itself was the highest circulated, most translated, most read, studied and obeyed magazine the world has ever known. Their study books are among the most widely distributed and annotated texts in history. These are amazing achievements, and they did this in the post-war west against the backdrop of declining interest in religion in society in general. Their growth is all the more impressive compared with the sharp declines of other churches over the same period. (I know there are other religious success stories, most prominently the Pentecostals. But frankly that was largely a political phenomenon in South America, and short lived in most other places.)

  It's the tremendous success of JWs in the twentieth century that makes their recent reversal all the more striking, and interesting... and for those of us who care, hopeful that certain things may change.
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  192

  Question for SBF

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  slimboyfat, it appears that wts is going, gone digital.

  can you show your view what is wts next move after they are completely gone from kings county and settled in warwick?

  - this thread is your if you want it..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  I kind of did:

  Income in Britain from "literature production" (presumably sales of literature to other branches) has been declining rapidly. (Apparently this is how they count it - one branch pays another branch for literature) The United States, United Kingdom and Germany have all been mass exporters of Watchtower literature in the past. As this declines their surpluses may decline.
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  192

  Question for SBF

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  slimboyfat, it appears that wts is going, gone digital.

  can you show your view what is wts next move after they are completely gone from kings county and settled in warwick?

  - this thread is your if you want it..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  The "literature sales" are from one branch to another, not to the public. They are a feature of Watchtower management accounting, not a source of revenue.
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  192

  Question for SBF

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  slimboyfat, it appears that wts is going, gone digital.

  can you show your view what is wts next move after they are completely gone from kings county and settled in warwick?

  - this thread is your if you want it..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  Why the uncertainty about timing of collapse?

  Simply because we don't know how much money Watchtower has on hand. We do know they have a revenue problem and there is no apparent solution in sight. So on this trajectory they will run out of money at some point. How long this will take depends on how much money they have in reserve and how skilful they are at managing decline. These things are not easy to determine.

  Of course there is also the possibility they will reverse the decline. It's just not easy to see how.
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  192

  Question for SBF

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  slimboyfat, it appears that wts is going, gone digital.

  can you show your view what is wts next move after they are completely gone from kings county and settled in warwick?

  - this thread is your if you want it..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  Sounds plausible. But I wonder if he meant this year alone, or over a longer period. The financial information publicly available in the UK indicates they have a reasonable cushion of funds at the moment and income covers expenses. It also indicates a high level of spending recent years. It will be interesting to see how this develops in the next few years. Income in Britain from "literature production" (presumably sales of literature to other branches) has been declining rapidly. (Apparently this is how they count it - one branch pays another branch for literature) The United States, United Kingdom and Germany have all been mass exporters of Watchtower literature in the past. As this declines their surpluses may decline. It's all very complicated, but there is information out there that is worth investigating. There must be interested people with the skills to analyse these things.

  It's worth bearing in mind that the US, UK, Germany and Brazil combined account for about a quarter of JW membership. If most other countries have a deficit that's not a great position to be in. You might even call it unsustainable.
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  114

  JW Stumper Questions - List You Best Here

  by pale.emperor in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hi guys.

  sooner or later we're going to get a jw knocking on our door.

  just like when we were jw's doing the knocking, it's good to have a question prepared to get them thinking about their own beliefs.

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  slimboyfat

  I meant to say "not allow you to discuss".

  Would be funny if the response was: "I'd rather not discuss that".
• 
  114

  JW Stumper Questions - List You Best Here

  by pale.emperor in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hi guys.

  sooner or later we're going to get a jw knocking on our door.

  just like when we were jw's doing the knocking, it's good to have a question prepared to get them thinking about their own beliefs.

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  slimboyfat

  Are there any questions your religion does now allow you to discuss?
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  192

  Question for SBF

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  slimboyfat, it appears that wts is going, gone digital.

  can you show your view what is wts next move after they are completely gone from kings county and settled in warwick?

  - this thread is your if you want it..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  I have addressed this point. You are making the same naive assumption Watchtower have made. They believed that when they stopped charging for the literature that the brothers would keep donating the same amount anyway. It turned out they were wrong, contributions fell and their output has shrunk as a result.

  Actually the key quote from you above I thought was this one:

  The org will simply find new ways to separate the sheep from their money as every other religion always has and will have an easier time than most since its a high control cult.

  Which is exactly the point. JWs have defined themselves as a religion that does not tithe or pass collections. Historically they have made their money from selling literature, so they didn't need to. It's undeniable that other religions make their money in other ways - mainly by tithing, collections and charitable activity. The question is how is Watchtower going to make their money now that publishing has dried up. Simply saying "they'll find a way" is not an answer. What way? And how? So far there's no evidence they've found any way to replicate the income they once made from literature sales. The best solutions offered so far has been charges for digital content or a tithe on membership. Neither of which Watchtower have yet done, and it's questionable if it would work if they did.