Posts by slimboyfat

26

When did JWs stop reciting the Lord’s Prayer together?

by slimboyfat in

does anyone know what year?

.

slimboyfat

These are interesting comments on early prayer meetings and their development and/or abandonment.

But I’m wondering in particular about the practice of “praying the Lord’s prayer in unison” that Knorr mentioned was practiced at the HQs in 1949. Many churches still do this in many different traditions: Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox, Coptic … even Unitarian. When did JWs stop “praying the Lord’s prayer in unison”?

Diogenesisiter I have never come across this practice among JWs, or ever heard it even mentioned. But it’s there in the 1949 Watchtower, so I was wondering if others have information. It is very interesting to hear you say you encountered it as a JW. I experienced it at school, and a few church settings when young, never at the Kingdom Hall.

https://youtu.be/HDF67hCcnAk

19

"Grace" and "post-modernity"

by Narkissos in

jw
friends

i was thinking today (again, for i may well have already written something similar before) that if one word of christian theology has any chance to survive into (and, perhaps, past) the so-called "post-modern" era that would probably be "grace".. i wrote "word" rather than "concept" or "notion" because "grace" is not easily reduced to a single meaning.

in the bible the hebrew and greek words usually translated as "grace" ("undeserved kindness" in the nw overtranslation) happen to fall both sides of an unlikely semantic "border," between aesthetics ("grace" = "beauty") and ethics ("grace" = exception to, or excess over, "justice").

and in christian tradition too the idea of "grace" has been construed in a number of ways.

slimboyfat

Interesting old post by Narkissos on “grace”, worth revisiting.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

slimboyfat

Stay alive until 1975!

Make do until post 2032!

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

slimboyfat

Yes, very toxic. These exchanges are amazing, each one more obnoxious than the last. What an awful person.

I noticed the part of the video conversation between Andrew Gold and Dr Sohom where Andrew Gold said something along the lines of, “I know we shouldn’t make judgements about a person’s private life, but even so, what he did to his wife was pretty bad.” Which is a normal reaction shared by most people outside of his shrinking, and frankly somewhat deranged looking, band of loyalists on Twitter.

In his original interview with Andrew Gold, Lloyd even said he was tempted to “argue” with his patrons who are abandoning him to point out to them in individual messages as they left, that they had made a mistake judging him for his private life. He doesn’t even allow for the idea that people are allowed to find the way he behaves repulsive and withdraw their support as a result. He attributes this to misunderstanding, or faulty reasoning on their part, rather than a normal response to his behaviour. He’s so far gone it’s like he inhabits his own morally upside down world.

12

The Sanitizing of David

by Doug Mason in

the bible depicts king david as a deeply flawed, unsavory character, the perpetrator of evil acts including: murder, insurrection, adultery, banditry, and extortion.

the sanitizing of david’s character during the following centuries and millennia created an image that idolizes him as the paragon of virtue, closely associated with the promised messiah.

my study identifies the davidic sanitizing process.. https://www.academia.edu/s/390a7ba170?source=link .

slimboyfat

I find Psalm 51:3,4 problematic, where it has David saying that he sinned against God and no one else, because it seems to dismiss accountability to other humans for his actions.

For I know my transgressions,
and my sin is ever before me.
Against you, you only, have I sinned
and done what is evil in your sight,
so that you may be justified in your words
and blameless in your judgment.

26

When did JWs stop reciting the Lord’s Prayer together?

by slimboyfat in

does anyone know what year?

.

slimboyfat

Nathan Knorr wrote in a letter in The Watchtower, November 15th 1949, page 351:

“Personally I use modern speech in my private and public prayers to God, and so do the families at Brooklyn Bethel, WBBR, and Gilead, even when praying the Lord’s prayer in unison.”

Fred Franz also testified to this as daily practice at morning worship in his testimony during Moyle v. Franz (1943).

So it would seem the practice continued until 1949 at least. Does anyone know when it was discontinued?

26

When did JWs stop reciting the Lord’s Prayer together?

by slimboyfat in

does anyone know what year?

.

slimboyfat

Does anyone know what year?

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

slimboyfat

vienne is there any kind of opposition to JWs you approve, or do you object to the entire enterprise?

Thanks Diogenesister for the reference to Aspinalls’ videos, they are quite good.

Many people film in front of books, Watch Tower History, KimMikey, even Sanderson, Jackson, and others on the GB like to have books behind them. As you say, in some homes it’s practically unavoidable.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

slimboyfat

Another ironic thing is that Lloyd falsely accused Kim Silvio of making libellous statements when all she did was state the facts of the situation which he himself confirmed. Yet now, because of his own lies and mishandling of the situation, he’s got an investigative journalist comparing him to a cult leader, and a qualified psychiatrist describing his behaviour as narcissistic and psychopathic. Surely that’s more “libellous” than anything Kim Silvio put out. He’d have a stronger case complaining about those descriptions, I’d imagine, although Andrew Gold and Dr Sohom presumably know what they are allowed to say. I suspect any judicial process would find those opinions fair enough, in the circumstances, given his behaviour.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

slimboyfat

Good idea, Simon. One of the biggest attractions of his channel was the number of leaked videos and letters he was able to “exclusively reveal”. If other channels got more effective at handling leaked material quickly and effectively that would go a long way to displacing his niche. That could be quite a challenge to replicate to be honest, because Lloyd has always had an uncanny ability to absorb and respond to developments lightning fast. Even when he was on this forum, there could be a leak one day, and the next day, or even within hours, he would have a pages-long rebuttal ready to go.