One couple for practising Feng Shui, a sister for smoking, and a brother for running a business that provided Christmas entertainment. At least those are the reasons I heard for the disfellowshippings. Not being an elder or a great gossip gatherer I can't be completely sure about the details.
slimboyfat
JoinedPosts by slimboyfat
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The most absurd reason have you heard someone disfellowshipped for ?
by Chook insomeone said on forum they knew someone df for not going to assigned meeting in old days .
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Beautiful new kingdom song
by slimboyfat inhas anyone noticed this new song?
i think it's absolutely beautiful.
it's got a film score quality about it, with depth and feeling.
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slimboyfat
143 in the 2009 songbook and 77 in the 2016 songbook.
I wonder why there are fewer songs in the 2016 songbook, and what songs fhey dropped.
i think it's a pretty good song. But at the same time I didn't mean to exaggerate. Last month we heard A German Requiem by Brahms in Greyfriars Kirk. The "dwelling place" song had been my favourite, but this time the song about all flesh turning to grass was amazing. Much better than any Kingdom Song and written by an atheist. Truly amazing music.
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The Internet is worse for the Watchtower than 1975 was: here's proof.
by ILoveTTATT2 ini am translating jwfacts to spanish.
i am doing the "statistics" section.here are two graphs that show that the statistics have never been worse for the watchtower:quantity of hours required for 1 baptism: note how low it went in 1974-1975, and note that 2016 is much higher than the slump of 1978... about double, to be exact.
2016 was a historical record in this statistic (higher is worse for watchtower).. this stat is the baptisms as a percentage of the publisher average.
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slimboyfat
Paul, I think Mormon numbers have collapsed quicker than JWs. If you look at the right numbers.
Select most western countries on the drop down option and notice the decline in number of congregations.
http://www.cumorah.com/index.php?target=countries
For example:
Britain has 333 congregations down from a peak of 374
Germany has 166 congregations down from a peak of 189
France has 108 congregations down from a peak of 128
Australia bucks the trend and currently has an all time peak of 312 congregations
Japan has 265 congregations down from a peak of 317 (this is perhaps the only country where JW decline in congregations matches or exceeds Mormon decline)
Italy 101 congregations down from a peak of 133
Many countries have this pattern of around 10 to 30% reduction in Mormon congregations over the past couple of decades. I think that's a pretty significant decline, and far greater decline than JWs have experienced so far.
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Beautiful new kingdom song
by slimboyfat inhas anyone noticed this new song?
i think it's absolutely beautiful.
it's got a film score quality about it, with depth and feeling.
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slimboyfat
Exactly, it's not like any Kingdom Song I have heard before. And they sing it very well at our Kingdom Hall, but the singing is always good.
The lyrics of this song are very generic. No mention of Jehovah, God, Jesus, Bible, ransom, faithful slave, or anything like that. The only clearly religious word is "pray". Although, of course, the words can be understood religiously, and with JW worldview in mind, in itself, the vocabulary is not specifically JW.
So I'm not entirely sure what to make if it, but I do like it. The tune and orchestration sound good to me, and the sparseness of the words imbue it with a certain power. I also like the songs that use Jehovah's name, of course. I'm not so enthusiastic about the swaying "how do you feel" one or the "obey and be blessed" one. But each has their own preferences.
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Beautiful new kingdom song
by slimboyfat inhas anyone noticed this new song?
i think it's absolutely beautiful.
it's got a film score quality about it, with depth and feeling.
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slimboyfat
Has anyone noticed this new song? I think it's absolutely beautiful. It's got a film score quality about it, with depth and feeling. And the lyrics, what to say about the lyrics? There are few if any specifically JW words, or even Christian words come to that. Any Christian, or other kind of believer, could surely sing it with no problem. In fact many secular optimists would surely be happy singing it, apart from the one word "pray", socialists, communists, liberal progressives, could sing it just as well. And you could interpret "pray" in a secular sense.
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The Internet is worse for the Watchtower than 1975 was: here's proof.
by ILoveTTATT2 ini am translating jwfacts to spanish.
i am doing the "statistics" section.here are two graphs that show that the statistics have never been worse for the watchtower:quantity of hours required for 1 baptism: note how low it went in 1974-1975, and note that 2016 is much higher than the slump of 1978... about double, to be exact.
2016 was a historical record in this statistic (higher is worse for watchtower).. this stat is the baptisms as a percentage of the publisher average.
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slimboyfat
Ha! Yes I was going to post the diagram but I don't know how to link images. Search for "Steve Bruce secularisation paradigm" and the diagram comes up.
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The Internet is worse for the Watchtower than 1975 was: here's proof.
by ILoveTTATT2 ini am translating jwfacts to spanish.
i am doing the "statistics" section.here are two graphs that show that the statistics have never been worse for the watchtower:quantity of hours required for 1 baptism: note how low it went in 1974-1975, and note that 2016 is much higher than the slump of 1978... about double, to be exact.
2016 was a historical record in this statistic (higher is worse for watchtower).. this stat is the baptisms as a percentage of the publisher average.
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slimboyfat
jwfacts this is the Mormon study that claimed to show the impact of the Internet on growth is neutral. They don't really talk in terms of the church being undermined by online information (it's a pro-Mormon angle) but that's a major consideration, reading between the lines.
http://cumorah.com/index.php?target=view_case_studies&story_id=339&cat_id=8
Here is the blog post on the topic from a very interesting blog on Mormon growth.
http://ldschurchgrowth.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/The%20Internet%20and%20LDS%20Growth
Paul I agree with the additional factors for JW decline you mention. In particular the increasing acceptance of homosexuality is a problem for JWs. I think in the past many gay people remained JWs because they wouldn't find acceptance outside the religion anyway. Nowadays the contrast between acceptance outside the religion and stigmatisation inside the religion is pretty stark, and probably pushes most young gay people to leave.
But I disagree when you say that "information" and science and so on are responsible for the decline of religion. I disagree for two reasons. Firstly I think it misunderstands how science and faith interact in a way that former JWs are particularly prone to misunderstand this issue. But more importantly the proponents of secularisation theory are particularly at pains to point out that the process of secularisation is not the result of science disproving religion, or information exposing religion or any such thing. The roots of secularisation are much deeper and social than that. In particular it results from individualisation, capitalism, egalitarianism, social differetiation, pluralism, relativism, technological consciousness, and compartmentalisation, among other social factors outlined by Steve Bruce and other social theorists.
It's getting a bit old now but I still think the best explanation of secularisation is this book.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/God-Dead-Secularization-Steve-Bruce-ebook/dp/B000W278JW
On the other hand there is a brand new book by historian Callum Brown, who emphasises cultural and gender reasons for religious decline. In his latest book "Becomign Atheist" he draws on a number of JW examples. Which should not be surprising because JWs are particularly prone to becoming atheist.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Becoming-Atheist-Humanism-Secular-West/dp/1474224520/
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The Internet is worse for the Watchtower than 1975 was: here's proof.
by ILoveTTATT2 ini am translating jwfacts to spanish.
i am doing the "statistics" section.here are two graphs that show that the statistics have never been worse for the watchtower:quantity of hours required for 1 baptism: note how low it went in 1974-1975, and note that 2016 is much higher than the slump of 1978... about double, to be exact.
2016 was a historical record in this statistic (higher is worse for watchtower).. this stat is the baptisms as a percentage of the publisher average.
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slimboyfat
Do you think the generation change in 1995 had any impact?
Another difference between 1975 and the "generation" prediction is that they left lots of wriggle room in the event of disconfimatuon over 1975, whereas the "generation" teaching had been stated clearly and uncompromisingly for decades.
1975 was suggested as an"appropriate time" for God to act, whereas the "generation" teaching was described as the "creator's promise" in every issue of the Awake!
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The Internet is worse for the Watchtower than 1975 was: here's proof.
by ILoveTTATT2 ini am translating jwfacts to spanish.
i am doing the "statistics" section.here are two graphs that show that the statistics have never been worse for the watchtower:quantity of hours required for 1 baptism: note how low it went in 1974-1975, and note that 2016 is much higher than the slump of 1978... about double, to be exact.
2016 was a historical record in this statistic (higher is worse for watchtower).. this stat is the baptisms as a percentage of the publisher average.
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slimboyfat
The downward trend starts too early for the Internet to be the main factor.
Plus the 1995 generation change was different from 1975 in important ways. In particular, when 1975 failed, JWs still had the "generation" teaching to ensure Armageddon was not far away. Now since 1995 they have nothing, at least nothing credible, to prove the end is near.
Look at the statistics of religious decline in general, in particular since the 1990s. JWs are not exception. Most churches are dealing, many much more significantly in decline than JWs.
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The Internet is worse for the Watchtower than 1975 was: here's proof.
by ILoveTTATT2 ini am translating jwfacts to spanish.
i am doing the "statistics" section.here are two graphs that show that the statistics have never been worse for the watchtower:quantity of hours required for 1 baptism: note how low it went in 1974-1975, and note that 2016 is much higher than the slump of 1978... about double, to be exact.
2016 was a historical record in this statistic (higher is worse for watchtower).. this stat is the baptisms as a percentage of the publisher average.
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slimboyfat
Why not attribute the decline to the 1995 generation change? (A big turning point for many)
Or the fact that people are becoming less religious and leaving churches in general? A huge trend in most developed countries from which JWs are not immune.
Or the organisational cutbacks that have discouraged many?
I don't think it's safe to attribute the decline primarily to the Internet.
For what it's worth, some Mormons did an analysis of their figures and concluded the Internet was not an important factor in growth or decline. Not sure how robust their methodology or how reliable their findings were, but I do share their scepticism about the commonplace assumption that the Internet is causing decline.