I think Nicholas Wolterstorff's answer is the most human. He says he lives with the question without the answer. I think many thoughtful believers approach the problem this way.
slimboyfat
JoinedPosts by slimboyfat
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315
Atheism = self defeating.
by towerwatchman inatheism = self defeating.
first may we define our terms.
the word atheism comes literally from the greek, alpha the negative and theos [for god], therefore “negative god” or there is no god.
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315
Atheism = self defeating.
by towerwatchman inatheism = self defeating.
first may we define our terms.
the word atheism comes literally from the greek, alpha the negative and theos [for god], therefore “negative god” or there is no god.
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slimboyfat
There is no possible reason for an omnipotent loving god...
Well that's your opinion. Clearly many believers do have their reasons for believing in God despite suffering, And others don't know the answer but trust there must be an answer.
Not one of them has a sensible answer.
No answer which you find sensible. Which is not necessarily the same thing.
As the OP points out, to assert there is no possible answer to the problem of evil, is basically an assertion that the human mind, or your human mind in particular, has such a perfect and complete grasp of reality that there is simply no possible chance of there being a solution to the problem that you haven't already figured out or judged to be satisfactory. That's a pretty bold claim.
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Number of Muslims protesting London terrorist attack = ZERO. Number of Muslims protesting forced Mosque closure in France = HUNDREDS
by kpop inso it is now two days after another islamic terrorist attack.
how many muslims are in the streets protesting and condemning this evil?
how many are marching in all the big cities condemning this in mass protests?.
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slimboyfat
Did the OP even bother checking the news before posting this predictable drivel?
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Number of Muslims protesting London terrorist attack = ZERO. Number of Muslims protesting forced Mosque closure in France = HUNDREDS
by kpop inso it is now two days after another islamic terrorist attack.
how many muslims are in the streets protesting and condemning this evil?
how many are marching in all the big cities condemning this in mass protests?.
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slimboyfat
I don't know what news you watch, but the news I saw included: Muslim mayor of London condemning the attack. Plus Muslim leaders standing beside Anglican, Catholic and Jewish leaders at Westminster Abbey after the attack.
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315
Atheism = self defeating.
by towerwatchman inatheism = self defeating.
first may we define our terms.
the word atheism comes literally from the greek, alpha the negative and theos [for god], therefore “negative god” or there is no god.
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slimboyfat
Natural evil is proof that the god of christian theism does not exist.
Two things wrong with this.
First is that it excludes the possibility God may have a reason for allowng suffering we either don't understand or possibly cannot understand. In Romans 7-9 Paul argues that humans are not in a position to question God's righteousness.
Another problem with the assertion is that there are many millions of believers who do believe in God who are well aware of suffering. Many Christians have reflected on the subject and philosophers have explored solutions. They don't think it's proof God doesn't exist.
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Red Alert - Propaganda is Being Used!!!!!!!!
by The Searcher incheck out the latest watchtower:.
"your defense?
be determined to stick to jehovah’s organization and loyally support the leadership he provides—no matter what imperfections may surface.
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slimboyfat
I also find this an interesting comment:
Surely there is ample evidence to show that you can trust the channel that Jehovah has used for nearly a hundred years now to lead us in the way of the truth
Why did they say "nearly a hundred years", when Russell started the movement nearly 150 years ago? I guess it's because of their new "faithful slave" teaching that claims the slave same into existence in 1919 or something like that, and only includes the "governing body", not anointed JWs in general. They say we should trust them because they claim to have been the slave for a hundred years. A more relevant question might be: why trust a "slave" that only figured out who it was and when it came into existence a couple of years ago, and was apparently wrong about its own identity for most of its so-called period of tenure.
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Red Alert - Propaganda is Being Used!!!!!!!!
by The Searcher incheck out the latest watchtower:.
"your defense?
be determined to stick to jehovah’s organization and loyally support the leadership he provides—no matter what imperfections may surface.
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slimboyfat
Not wanting to restart anything, but it's on page 30 as far as I can see, not page 20. -
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Red Alert - Propaganda is Being Used!!!!!!!!
by The Searcher incheck out the latest watchtower:.
"your defense?
be determined to stick to jehovah’s organization and loyally support the leadership he provides—no matter what imperfections may surface.
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slimboyfat
Searcher, the minus isn't mine, but bear in mind people can use plus or minus for complicated reasons.
For example, someone who agrees with the point you are making, but is disgusted with the WT quote, may add a minus to the post to express their disgust at the quote in particular. Not saying it makes sense, but I think it can happen.
Of course it could also be a JW who disagrees with the point your are making. But there aren't many of those around here.
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315
Atheism = self defeating.
by towerwatchman inatheism = self defeating.
first may we define our terms.
the word atheism comes literally from the greek, alpha the negative and theos [for god], therefore “negative god” or there is no god.
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slimboyfat
Yes it is.
Atheists hold two contradictory beliefs at once.
1. That human rationality is a result of natural selection shaped for survival not a God given faculty for seeing the world as it really is.
2. Human rationality can be relied upon to deliver a reliable answer to questions such as "does God exist?"
One or the other assumption has to give.
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315
Atheism = self defeating.
by towerwatchman inatheism = self defeating.
first may we define our terms.
the word atheism comes literally from the greek, alpha the negative and theos [for god], therefore “negative god” or there is no god.
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slimboyfat
I have come increasingly to the conclusion that ALL significant ideological perspectives on reality are self-refuting when you think about them long and hard. Some contradictions are easier to spot than others, but contradiction appears to be at the heart of pretty much any position you wish to adopt.
scepticism - we can't know anything (including the assertion that "we can't know anything"?)
physicalism - only physical things exist (then what is the statement/thought "only physical things exist"?)
relativism - all viewpoints are equally valid (including the view that there are correct and incorrect viewpoints?)
theism - there is a being who has unlimited power and is perfect in love (how can God be both loving and all-powerful in a world full of suffering?)
naturalism - every event can be explained with reference to the rules of nature (how do you explain the existence of natural laws in the first place without contradicting this premise?)
atheism - I can use logic and reason to show God does not exist (why should human rationality be relied upon if it is purely the result of selection for survival?)
Self-refutation doesn't appear to be an isolated quirk. It seems to be a feature of any ideological position one may wish to adopt.