Posts by slimboyfat

36

What is the basis for advising “Don’t pursue higher studies”?

by venus in

two elders who visited my friend last week encouraged her not to pursue higher studies.

it seems they are dishing out the same old stuff: “the end is imminent, and this is the time to do more in the service; hence don’t waste your resources on higher studies.”.

i wonder whether there was some official communiqué (something that is sent out recently like letter to the elders, or kingdom ministry article …).

slimboyfat

People who get an education tend to leave JWs. That's the basis of the "don't do higher education" instruction.

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

I don't think it is JW theology proper that is the problem. A good Bible case can be made for many of their distinguishing theological claims: Jesus as a created being; soul sleep; importance of God's name; God's self-limited foreknowledge; endurance for salvation; paradise earth and so on. To me the problem lies in their authoritarian structure; lack of engagement with modern science, scholarship, culture, and ethics; punishment of free thought and the like.

11

Book That Helped Me - My Recommended Reading List

by doubtfull1799 in

these are the books that led to my awakening:.

the art of thinking clearly - rolf dobelli.

how to defend the christian faith: advice from an evolutionist - john w.loftus.

slimboyfat

Good and Bad Religion - Peter Vardy

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

slimboyfat

You are very clearly changing the goal posts.

Your first post claimed the Bible should supply useful information not available to people at the time.

Failing to give any good reason why God should meet this standard you have set, instead you talk about the Bible being written by ignorant goat herders. (Familiar new atheist trope)

If you are not willing to back up your original assertion that the Bible should contain useful information not known at the time. Where is the justification for the new assertion that God could not inspire a book that conforms to a contemporary conception of the world?

You have asserted God would not do that. What is your evidence?

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

slimboyfat

I am asking a perfectly straightforward question. You said for example:

The bible would contain useful information that people could not have known at the time it was written.

I said this was an example of your preference and asked why should God satisfy your preference.

You responded it was nothing to do with your preference, but that it's what the God of Jesus "by his own words" must be like, if he exists.

So the simple question is: where does the God of Jesus promise to be a God who provides "useful information that people could not have known at the time"?

Very specific question. Any chance of an answer instead of insult and obfuscation?

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

slimboyfat

The Bible acknowledges a world with predators and suffering, I don't know where in the Bible it promises clear and specific prophecy, or scientific and ethical insights ahead of its time. And there are parts of the Bible that describe God as acting and answering humans at his own choosing and as he sees fit.

In particular the idea that the Bible should be, in some sense, "ahead of its time" seems to be a very culturally conditioned view of the sacred text, situated within a Protestant/enlightenment conception of progress, and what the sacred text is and should be like in relation to it. I don't know if the text itself that promises this.

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

slimboyfat

Why could God not have created the world as it is, the Bible as it is, and answer prayers as he sees fit? I understand you would prefer that God made a world without predators, a Bible with clear prophecy, and prayers with consistent answers. But beyond mere preference, what has this actually got to do with the existence or otherwise of God? Can't God be God as he chooses to be God rather than how you would choose him to be?

What is your actual argument?

11

How many JW's believe to their last breath . .

by nicolaou in

jw
friends

i can easily believe that thousands did all through the watchtowers glory years but especially after '95 the whole thing has been unravelling.

kidding yourself to maintain family relationships and social networks is *somewhat* understandable in life but on your deathbed?.

i think the demographic for jw's may actually get younger as time goes on.

slimboyfat

I think there is a lot of disbelief among JWs at the moment. Recent conversations I have had surprise me how much many JWs question these days. I think JWs are in a pretty vulnerable position right now. A few factors leading to increased doubts: bad publicity over abuse; stupid doctrinal changes such as overlapping generation; the GB making fools of themselves on the TV; many indications of organisational decline; 1914 getting more and more incredible with passage of time; increasing numbers of anointed when they should be going down; lack of substance to meetings and magazines these days; and, not to be underestimated: the secularising trend in society in general having its effect on JWs.

Having said all that, I think it's worth bearing in mind that belief/disbelief are not often, if ever, discrete binaries. I feel this anyway, in relation to myself: that I have experienced a variety of stages between belief and doubt, and one side never fully succeeds in defeating the other. It's true that JWs may more frequently have doubts these days. Unbelievers can also have their "doubts". It's a strange person who doesn't, no matter what their ideological position.

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

slimboyfat

Natural laws are themselves part of the things that exist. So how can they be within themselves or explain themselves?

Uniquely miraculous in the true sense of a miracle being something outside of nature's laws

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

slimboyfat

Why does anything exist at all? That's the central mystery/miraculous core.