How can we spend time arguing about these details when we are facing the Trumpocalypse!
slimboyfat
JoinedPosts by slimboyfat
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67
John Lewis: Trump isn't a legitimate president
by Brokeback Watchtower inhttp://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/john-lewis-trump-isnt-a-legitimate-president/ar-aalqsqs?li=bbmkt5r&ocid=spartanntp.
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Oi Cofty
by Landy innew series of timc started monday.. one of the episodes is on evolution - should be good knowing cox's antipathy towards religion.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b088f2vv.
sorry you colonials - it's on the bbc so you won't be able to get it.
serves yourself right for voting for trump!
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slimboyfat
What makes you say Scotland would have been worse off independent? In the 1970s the UK government commissioned a report that concluded Scotland would be a very wealthy independent country. The report was kept secret. In the meantime Norway did become a very wealthy country, while UK revenue from the North Sea was used to fund 1980s privatisation and tax cuts, and none put aside for the future. The UK also spent a fortune on wars and weapons of mass destruction. How has any of that improved Scotland's position? Scotland has been a net contributor to the UK for most of the last 40 years. Only in the last couple of years has this reversed slightly. The Independent - hardly an snp paper.
Given that history how on earth can you say Scotland has been better off in the UK?
The table at the bottom of this page shows that Scotland raised slightly less revenue per person than the rest of the UK for the last two years, compared with years when revenue from Scotland was much higher than the rest of the UK.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-37167975
There is no doubt that the last two years have been tough for Scotland because of the low price of oil. But that's within the context of years and decades of net contribution to the UK. And if Scotland was independent it could have put money aside as Norway did. If Scotland is independent in the future it can make better decisions about its economy than the UK has made.
It's as if unionists think staying in the UK actually constitutes an economic plan. Scotland needs to adapt whether it is independent or not. The Barnett formula won't last forever whether we are independent or not. Or is it really the plan to rely on subsidy from now on indefinitely? Good luck with that economic plan.
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Oi Cofty
by Landy innew series of timc started monday.. one of the episodes is on evolution - should be good knowing cox's antipathy towards religion.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b088f2vv.
sorry you colonials - it's on the bbc so you won't be able to get it.
serves yourself right for voting for trump!
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slimboyfat
A few observations about that:
1. If the UK is such a great thing for Scotland how come we've ended up in that position?
2. And if being in the UK got us into that situation, how is remaining part of the UK ever going to improve things?
3. What is the unionist plan to fix the situation? Beg money from the rest of the UK forever? Do you think the rest of the UK would stand for that? Would it even be desirable from a Scottish standpoint?
Apart from all of which you seem to have swallowed unionist propaganda about Scotland having a huge deficit. The truth is most countries have deficits (not Norway because they controlled their own oil revenue). And for most of the last 40 years Scotland has had a smaller deficit than the rest of the UK and been a net contributor to the UK. In fact 2012/13 was the first year in decades when Scotland's deficit was larger than the UK and it was only slightly larger. Even the BBC report this truthfully on occasion. See the graph half way down this page.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-28879267
Whether Scotland prospers in the future depends on whether we can make the right choices about our future here in Scotland. Relying on handouts is not a good plan, sells ourselves short and doesn't show respect for rest of the UK.
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Oi Cofty
by Landy innew series of timc started monday.. one of the episodes is on evolution - should be good knowing cox's antipathy towards religion.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b088f2vv.
sorry you colonials - it's on the bbc so you won't be able to get it.
serves yourself right for voting for trump!
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slimboyfat
You say we are so poor we cannot afford to be independent, but that we are doing "tremendously well" under Tories. Which is it?
As I understand it the facts are the Scotland has contributed far more to the UK treasury as a percentage than it has got back for most of the last 40 years, largely because of oil revenue. It is true this has reversed slightly in the last couple of years because of lower oil revenue. That's the current position. Scotland needs to adapt to a post-oil economy whether we are independent or not. We need to develop our strengths and the best way to do that is to make the right choices for our own economy. Not allow others to make mistakes on our behalf.
If the unionists' plan is simply for Scotland to rely on money from the rest of the UK I don't think that's a plan the rest of the UK will welcome. And neither would it be good for Scotland. We have a lot going for us including untapped oil and gas, renewable energy, tourism, fishing, niche food and drink exports, world class universities, creative industries and so on. Norway is rich because it used its oil wealth wisely. Unfortunately our North Sea oil revenue was not wisely used. But it's not the only way to create a successful small country. Look at Denmark without oil.
Again the issue comes down to this. Those who say an independent Scotland would be a disaster need to explain what they think is so uniquely inadequate about Scotland or Scottish people that they can't be trusted to govern themselves.
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Scriptures rarely mentioned
by dothemath ina couple of examples of scriptures hardly ever quoted is 1 tim.
2:12- "i do not permit a woman to teach, or to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence".
or verse 11- "let a woman learn in silence with full submissiveness.".
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slimboyfat
1 Cor 1:2
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Oi Cofty
by Landy innew series of timc started monday.. one of the episodes is on evolution - should be good knowing cox's antipathy towards religion.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b088f2vv.
sorry you colonials - it's on the bbc so you won't be able to get it.
serves yourself right for voting for trump!
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slimboyfat
Plus to point out what should be obvious in Scotland, the SNP are not the only party or group for indepdence. There are the Greens, Scottish Socialists, Rise and other left groups, as well as Labour for Indepdence, and even a few Tory supporters.
In fact when it comes to another referendum the SNP don't have enough votes in parliament to make it happen. It will only pass if the Greens support it as well. Which no doubt they will.
I find it amusing how the BBC and other media have somehow convinced people elsewhere in the UK that Sturgeon is somehow afraid of independence or she doesn't really mean it. That's the power of propaganda I suppose. They have succeeded in making some people believe that Scotland governing itself is such a ridiculous idea that even those who are in favour of it don't really mean what they say. Amazing.
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Oi Cofty
by Landy innew series of timc started monday.. one of the episodes is on evolution - should be good knowing cox's antipathy towards religion.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b088f2vv.
sorry you colonials - it's on the bbc so you won't be able to get it.
serves yourself right for voting for trump!
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slimboyfat
Well I support SNP as a means to an end. When Scotland is independent it will vote for its own government. Presumably initially some kind of centre-left coalition, in line with majority politiical opinion in Scotland. I don't think SNP will last long in independent Scotland. Not everyone's view, but parties would realign to new situation.
It is the UK government that spent oil revenue without saving any. It is the UK government that took us into illegal and expensive wars, costing many lives as well as billions of pounds. It is the UK government that presided over a bank system at the centre of the global crash. It is the UK government that is dismantling the welfare system and bunggled its way out of the EU.
It would challenging for any new Scotland to equal that level of failure. Scotland's current financial poisition is a result of being part of the UK and subject to these and other failed policies. What would Scotland look like if we had 1) set up an oil fund like Norway 2) avoided illegal wars and paying for weapons of mass destruction 3) control over our own regulation and spending priorities? We can't change the mistakes of the past, but we can learn from them. If you are correct that Scotland's financial position is parlous, then it seems beyond weird to use this as an argument for staying in the current arrangement that got into that position in the first place. If we want to improve the situation the answer is to grow up and take responsibility for governing ourselves.
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Oi Cofty
by Landy innew series of timc started monday.. one of the episodes is on evolution - should be good knowing cox's antipathy towards religion.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b088f2vv.
sorry you colonials - it's on the bbc so you won't be able to get it.
serves yourself right for voting for trump!
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slimboyfat
The truth is we don't know exactly how another future would have turned out, if Scotland had chosen independence in 2014. Some say bankrupt, some say socialist utopia. One of the campaign issues is a bit clearer now however. Unionists said we needed to vote No to save EU membership. We know how that turned out.
What I can't understand from unionists is two things. First of all why impugn the motives of those you disagree with? Why can't supporters of independence simply be what they appear to be: those who happen think the best people to make choices about the government of Scotland are the people who live in Scotland? Why all this nonsense about ambition, braveheart and anti-English nonsense? The campaign was about the NHS, the EU, pro-immigration, proper use of oil and renewable resources, choosing own government, getting rid of Trident and so on.
Second thing is the utter conviction unionists seem to have that Scotland governing itself could be nothing other than an unmitigated disaster. What is it about Scotland or the people who live in Scotland that makes you so convinced they could not successfully govern themsleves? Denmark, Switzerland, Norway, Ireland, Luxembourg - all very successful small countries. But Scotland we are told would be a disaster. Why of all nations are we uniquely incapable?
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Oi Cofty
by Landy innew series of timc started monday.. one of the episodes is on evolution - should be good knowing cox's antipathy towards religion.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b088f2vv.
sorry you colonials - it's on the bbc so you won't be able to get it.
serves yourself right for voting for trump!
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slimboyfat
I have no idea how you think your post is an answer to what I said, or how an anti-war movement can be described as jingoistic. Bizarre. The referendum campaign was about avoiding another Iraq war, removing Trident weapons of mass destruction, saving the NHS, staying in the EU, pro-immigration, Scotland getting the governments it votes for. Where are you getting Braveheart or anti-English arguments? Must be from unionist side.
bohm the bias of the BBC is not about Englishness. It is supportive of the UK state and against self-government of the home nations, pro-monarchy, neo-liberal economic order, and British military intervention, most notoriously leading up to the Iraq war in 2003.
Former BBC journalist Paul Mason compared BBC bias against Scottish independence to its bias supporting the Blair government into Iraq war:
“Not since Iraq have I seen BBC News working at propaganda strength like this. So glad I’m out of there,”
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30
Oi Cofty
by Landy innew series of timc started monday.. one of the episodes is on evolution - should be good knowing cox's antipathy towards religion.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b088f2vv.
sorry you colonials - it's on the bbc so you won't be able to get it.
serves yourself right for voting for trump!
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slimboyfat
Of all the things to accuse SNP - jingoistic? Really? Either you know nothing about Scottish politics or you don't know what the word jingoistic means. The SNP vocally opposed unnecessary wars that the UK government has engaged. They support unilateral disarmament, support the UN, and have only very reluctantly accepted a policy of remaining in the NATO alliance as long as Scotland doesn't need to harbour weapons of mass destruction. In fact it's the SNP's opposition to the Iraq war and nuclear weapons that attracted many people to the cause, me included. One of the most popular independence slogans during the referendum "Bairns Not Bombs" was plastered all over cars and houses. A rather curious marching call for so-called warmongers.
As for the other slurs they are also the oppsotive of the truth. The Yes campaign was outward looking, pro-immigration, pro-EU, positive about Scotland's place in a British family of nations. The anti-English slur is a canard so old a patently untrue that even Scottish opposition parties have given up insulting the intelligence of the Scottish people by invoking it.
About the Billy Connolly quote: I think it perfectly exemplifies the small mindedness of a few who still exhibit the Scottish cringe, or the idea that there's something abnormal or dangerous about the notion that a country should govern itself if that country happens to be called Scotland. Plus it's well worth remembering that Billy Connolly was not just opposing Scottish independence in that quote. He made that comment during the referendum for devolution in 1997 and was strongly opposed to Scotland having any parliament of any kind. Which is a position so unpopular and extreme now in Scotland that not even Scottish Tories advocate reversing devolution.
The BBC was extremely biased against the independence movement during the campaign. I saw this myself especially during the last days of the campaign when the Yes movement created a carnival atmosphere in Scotland that was barely reported. Also barely reported was the violence of the unionists in George Square the day after.