The story does sound a bit incredible. "Speak against our prganisation" and spit in people's face? Sounds like a caricature rather than real JW behaviour. But you never know. Maybe it's an embellished story with some truth to it.
slimboyfat
JoinedPosts by slimboyfat
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101
HELP needed from folks in UK, esp. in Scotland!
by WTS Archive intl;dr: if you live either in scotland or in other parts of uk and you don't mind traveling, you might be able to help a fellow ex-jw by being present during a courtcase where she alone has to face more than two dozens of jws who have ruined their business.
please contact me directly for details on when and where the court case will be held (i will know these details in few days probably).
ps.
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101
HELP needed from folks in UK, esp. in Scotland!
by WTS Archive intl;dr: if you live either in scotland or in other parts of uk and you don't mind traveling, you might be able to help a fellow ex-jw by being present during a courtcase where she alone has to face more than two dozens of jws who have ruined their business.
please contact me directly for details on when and where the court case will be held (i will know these details in few days probably).
ps.
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slimboyfat
For once, I wished I lived in Scotland!!
Hey, what's this "for once", business?
I've not heard of Polish people becoming JWs en masse in Scotland, but then, how would I know. I remember, around ten years ago, being struck by how many Polish people live in and around Blairgowrie, a congregation I knew at one time. I wonder if it's there, or possibly elsewhere in Perthshire. But there are plenty of Polish people in Glasgow and elsewhere too.
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57
How do we know JWs are wrong and how do we convince others JWs are wrong: logic versus persuasion
by slimboyfat inwe like to think we are logical and have good reasons for for our beliefs.
no more so than when it comes to our reasons for rejecting the truth claims of jws.
we reject their version of history, such as the date of the fall of jerusalem, because it doesn't agree with the historical evidence.
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slimboyfat
Most people are not even aware of their need to conform. They live under the illusion that they follow their own ideas and inclinations, that they are individualists, that they have arrived at their opinion as the result of their own thinking - and that it just happens that their ideas are the same as that of the majority. Erich Fromm
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113
I am deeply ashamed that I didn't accept evolution until a few years ago...
by ILoveTTATT2 inso... i live in mexico and i am helping with an esl class (english as a second language).
actually, i am helping with two classes.
i get two days a week in which i just stand there and have a debate with the class, encouraging as many as possible to just talk... in english.. anyways, i like talking about subjects that generate debate.
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slimboyfat
It does seem that way.
Cofty says people should read the arguments of those they disagree with so they can see both sides before arriving at a view. But he doesn't practise what he preaches when it comes to postmodernism.
What he really means seems to be: 'you should all read books that agree with me and see how wrong you are. But don't expect me to do the same.'
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113
I am deeply ashamed that I didn't accept evolution until a few years ago...
by ILoveTTATT2 inso... i live in mexico and i am helping with an esl class (english as a second language).
actually, i am helping with two classes.
i get two days a week in which i just stand there and have a debate with the class, encouraging as many as possible to just talk... in english.. anyways, i like talking about subjects that generate debate.
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slimboyfat
I would not criticise christianity unless I thoroughly understood the beliefs of christians. Christian theology is trivially easy to understand. Evolution is really complex. I have been studying it for 10 years and have only scratched the surface. Amusingly theists think it is intellectually honest to reject the fact of evolution despite never having read a single book on the subject - creationists books don't count!
How come you criticise poststructuralism, Derrida, Foucault, postmodernism, constructionism, deconstruction, and so on without reading any?
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114
Jehovah's Witnesses ARE Christians, why do so many ex JW's deny this?
by nicolaou injehovah's witnesses accept jesus as christ, the son of god.
they try, in their own way, to live by his teachings and imitate him.
they pray, read the bible and meet together regularly for worship.. i won't minimise any of the harm and damage they cause but for the life of me, i can't see how anyone can credibly deny that they are christians.. why do so many former jws have a problem with this?
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slimboyfat
But Jesus/God is shy, lazy or apathetic. He could easily say who are Christians and who aren't but does not .
These are viewpoints that neither JWs nor Christians would accept of course. So if it's only that basis that both are Christians then there's a problem.
It's as if atheists perceive the situation like two children arguing with one another:
First child: I'm the king of the castle!
Second child: no I'm the king of the castle!
Adult: you are both king of the castle, now be quiet!
That's the sort of level at which atheists seem to think they have "settled" this issue of who is Christian. The problem of course is that religious believers don't perceive themselves as squabbling infants and they believe the issue under dispute actually matters.
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114
Jehovah's Witnesses ARE Christians, why do so many ex JW's deny this?
by nicolaou injehovah's witnesses accept jesus as christ, the son of god.
they try, in their own way, to live by his teachings and imitate him.
they pray, read the bible and meet together regularly for worship.. i won't minimise any of the harm and damage they cause but for the life of me, i can't see how anyone can credibly deny that they are christians.. why do so many former jws have a problem with this?
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slimboyfat
No they wouldn't dispute it. They would assert it and then demand respect for their equally risible superstitions.
It sometimes seems like if I say grass is green you'll say not really. But you've got even me scratching my head to understand why you think this is a significant distinction here. Okay they "assert" it instead of "strongly disputing" it. Whatever.
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114
Jehovah's Witnesses ARE Christians, why do so many ex JW's deny this?
by nicolaou injehovah's witnesses accept jesus as christ, the son of god.
they try, in their own way, to live by his teachings and imitate him.
they pray, read the bible and meet together regularly for worship.. i won't minimise any of the harm and damage they cause but for the life of me, i can't see how anyone can credibly deny that they are christians.. why do so many former jws have a problem with this?
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slimboyfat
If there really is a God who inspired the Bible and is the Heavenly Father of Jesus.. if all of that is true, then JWs and and mainstream Christendom can't both be right about Jesus. One teaches that he is the almighty, omnipresent, omniscient creator of the universe. The other teaches that he is a creature, his knowledge is limited, and he's not almighty. Both sides of this debate agree that these differences are so great that they disqualify the other side from being Christian.
Of course if there is no God in reality then the details of such dogma seem pretty trivial. On that basis it's easy to see why atheists would have least problems with calling both groups Christians. But in doing so it's worth baring in mind they rely upon an assumption that the dogma doesn't matter because God doesn't exist anyway. An assumption that both JWs and Christians would strongly dispute of course.
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114
Jehovah's Witnesses ARE Christians, why do so many ex JW's deny this?
by nicolaou injehovah's witnesses accept jesus as christ, the son of god.
they try, in their own way, to live by his teachings and imitate him.
they pray, read the bible and meet together regularly for worship.. i won't minimise any of the harm and damage they cause but for the life of me, i can't see how anyone can credibly deny that they are christians.. why do so many former jws have a problem with this?
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slimboyfat
Seems to me that exJW's who reject the Christian label being attached to Jehovah’s Witnesses do so because they want their own move from one denomination of Christendom to another to seem more significant than it really is.
Well yes, that's one way of putting it. Another way of putting it is that ex-JWs who still believe in the Bible take seriously the idea that JW doctrine may be defined as heretical.
Just as atheist former JWs who want to include JWs as Christians are basically saying: Christianity isn't true, it's all varieties of non-sense anyway, so why not simply let them all be called Christian? What does it matter?
If you take the Bible and belief in God seriously then obviously it's going to matter a lot whether groups like JWs teach false doctrine.
If you don't take religion seriously then you may view it as mainly a matter of historical or cultural labelling, and correct doctrine is neither here nor there.
I think it also depends on context and who is asking the question and why.
For example if comparing JWs, Krishna Consciousness and Sufism, and someone asks what sort of religion JWs are, then "Christian" would be an accurate and enlightening answer in that context, because they are firmly within the Christian historical tradition, rather than Hindu, Islam or whatever.
But if someone asks a Protestant minister whether JWs are Christian that's a completely different context and may result in a different answer, with reasons for the answer. That doesn't mean the minister would be lying if he said JWs are not Christian, but he is answering a different sort of question with a different purpose in mind.
A different discussion again will result if the label "Christian" is being discussed in a moral sense, and whether JWs live up to the name Christian, if it is taken in the everyday sense to mean a standard of kindness and charity toward others. Some will say JWs meet that definition of Christian and others will say they don't.
Atheists will strongly dispute this meaning of "Christian" as kind or good of course (although it's there in the dictionary, and everyone understands what it means) and they are not interested in correct doctrine or what God supposedly approves. So of course from that perspective it makes sense to say that historically JWs come from Christiantiy, they rely heavily on the tradition and they claim to be Christian, so why not call them Christian?
It all depends on your perspective.
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114
Jehovah's Witnesses ARE Christians, why do so many ex JW's deny this?
by nicolaou injehovah's witnesses accept jesus as christ, the son of god.
they try, in their own way, to live by his teachings and imitate him.
they pray, read the bible and meet together regularly for worship.. i won't minimise any of the harm and damage they cause but for the life of me, i can't see how anyone can credibly deny that they are christians.. why do so many former jws have a problem with this?
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slimboyfat
Well that's one argument for calling JWs Christians. There are arguments on the other side too. And it depends what you think "Christian" means in the first place.
To some people to be a Christian you need to adhere to the Nicene creed.
To others being a Christian is about being a kind person.
To others Christians are simply people who hold a variety of erroneous superstitious beliefs about a man called Jesus from first century Palestine.
The old appearance/reality distinction raises its head when you invoke quacking ducks. I still like the Groucho Marx quote best:
I may talk like an idiot and act like an idiot. But don't let that fool you, I really am an idiot!