slimboyfat

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Posts by slimboyfat

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  53

  The Real Reason why the WT predicted Armageddon in 1975

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am of the opinion that the wt doctrine is influenced more by external factors that it is by internal ones.

  one of the doctrines that has puzzled me for some time is the armageddon prediction of 1975. why would the wts make this prediction?

  what was their real purpose?.

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  slimboyfat

  Is it right, that the tax involved was property tax in the state of New York? It's not the same as JWs losing tax exemption in general. Any idea about the amount of money involved? If they paid the tax from 1971 to 1974 is there public record?

  Yes I read the part of the article that says preaching was key to their argument for being considered a religious community. What is absent however is any evidence that 1975 was promoted with the aim of proving that they are a proselytising community when they were already regarded as such. Instead what we have is a lot of evidence that JWs were pointing to 1975 for decades (at least since the 1940s) and that Fred Franz heavily promoted the idea and was idelogically committed to it.

  As dozy says, many recent developments were clearly financially motivated, such as dropping charges for the literature. The evidence for the financial and legal motives behind that change is clear.
• 
  53

  The Real Reason why the WT predicted Armageddon in 1975

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am of the opinion that the wt doctrine is influenced more by external factors that it is by internal ones.

  one of the doctrines that has puzzled me for some time is the armageddon prediction of 1975. why would the wts make this prediction?

  what was their real purpose?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  The fact WT lost tax exemption on their New York properties between 1971 and 1974 is an interesting fact in itself I have not seen mentioned elsewhere. Thanks for posting it. I wonder why it's not been commented upon.

  But linking it with the 1975 prediction seems unwarranted, unless there's some evidence.
• 
  18

  Undeserved kindness

  by life is to short in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  just a side note that i found interesting and sort of upsetting, the wt that the jw's will study on sunday the 18th of september has the words undeserved kindness mentioned 50 in just 19 paragraphs.

  really they need to beat it into their people that they are very worthless and do no deserve anything from god?

  so much so that they use the words over and over, don't they.. lits .

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  slimboyfat

  The word "grace" tends to emphasize God's mercy, whereas the term "underserved kindness" emphasises that humans are not worthy.

  When you gain broader perspective it becomes apparent that JWs are not a very God oriented religion.
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  10

  Rocky

  by molybdenum in

  1. social
  2. entertainment

  welcome "rocky".

  the new face on jw broadcasting.

  .

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  slimboyfat

  Is he "anointed"?

  Splane looked smitten. Yuck.
• 
  405

  Origin of Life

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

  as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

  there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

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  slimboyfat

  Cofty in first post:

  How do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

  Cofty in later post:

  It has nothing at all to do with answering "ultimate questions" How the process of life began is a scientific puzzle not a metaphysical one. That is the point. It's not about whether god exists, it's simply about how the process of life gets started.

  Huh? Which is it?
  

  Cofty consistently using insults instead of addressing the argument:

  You are a troll. You constantly hijack threads with your tedious po-mo bullshit.
• 
  405

  Origin of Life

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

  as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

  there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

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  slimboyfat

  You are correct. I thought my point was already reasonable, but struck by Cofty's response, I attempted to express it in even milder terms, and I unnecessarily altered the meaning. I could have better said:

  "This thread is based on the assumption that scientific discoveries will establish an atheistic view of reality and asks how theists will respond when confronted with that reality."

  The idea that science can answer ultimate questions about existence is far from an established fact. In fact it's probably a minority view, mainly popular among some science writers. The idea that anyone challenging it must be a troll is bizarre and startlingly blinkered.
• 
  53

  The Real Reason why the WT predicted Armageddon in 1975

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am of the opinion that the wt doctrine is influenced more by external factors that it is by internal ones.

  one of the doctrines that has puzzled me for some time is the armageddon prediction of 1975. why would the wts make this prediction?

  what was their real purpose?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  As already acknowledged, JWs preached before, during and after this period. So the connection between tax status, preaching, and 1975 looks tenuous to non-existent. Have you missed out some evidence for a connection?

  Besides, if you are accused of not being a real religion, then setting a date for Armageddon to prove that you are, is a pretty bizarre response, given that society in general doesn't tend to view apocalyptic date-setting favourably.

  The evidence would tend to suggest that JWs promoted 1975 because many of them really believed it, including the Vice President. It's fair to argue the leadership were also pleased about the boost in membership and activity and that might have been part of a calculation for some.

  You argue the real reason for the blood situation is money, and that money also prompted the 1975 prophecy. Is it your general contention that financial considerations are behind most JW doctrinal history?
• 
  405

  Origin of Life

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

  as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

  there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

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  slimboyfat

  The thread is based on the assumption that scientific discoveries will tend to support an atheistic view of reality and asks how theists well respond when confronted with the new proof. I am saying that reality does not work like that and scientific discoveries do not solve ultimate questions.

  Where is a strawman involved in making that basic observation?
• 
  405

  Origin of Life

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

  as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

  there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

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  3. 
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  slimboyfat

  What is your problem? Do you mean to imply I don't really mean what I say? The idea that our picture of reality will never be finally settled is hardly a far out notion. It's pretty mainstream. The fact that JWs and some atheists share this confidence, that one day they'll be "proved right", once and for all, is worth pointing out. Or am I a "troll" simply because I don't agree with you that the nature of reality will one day be finally settled? And how on earth does calling me names (no personal attacks?) address the argument?
• 
  405

  Origin of Life

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

  as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

  there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  This thread reminds me of the Kingdom Song that goes:

  Then they will know you only are Jehovah
  Then they will know your ways are just and true
  Then they will know throughout the whole creation
  All you have purposed you will surely do

  JW believers and their atheist counterparts seem to share the same belief that at some point in the future their view of reality will be confirmed beyond doubt, once and for all. The evidence will be so overwhelming at Armageddon/following some scientific breakthrough, that their opponents will simply have to recognise the "truth" of the situation.

  It is a fantasy.