By the way, when reading about logical fallacies, I came across the name for the logical fallacy you use when dismissing my arguments about perspectivism: argumentum ad lapidem.
slimboyfat
JoinedPosts by slimboyfat
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How do we know JWs are wrong and how do we convince others JWs are wrong: logic versus persuasion
by slimboyfat inwe like to think we are logical and have good reasons for for our beliefs.
no more so than when it comes to our reasons for rejecting the truth claims of jws.
we reject their version of history, such as the date of the fall of jerusalem, because it doesn't agree with the historical evidence.
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How do we know JWs are wrong and how do we convince others JWs are wrong: logic versus persuasion
by slimboyfat inwe like to think we are logical and have good reasons for for our beliefs.
no more so than when it comes to our reasons for rejecting the truth claims of jws.
we reject their version of history, such as the date of the fall of jerusalem, because it doesn't agree with the historical evidence.
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slimboyfat
Cofty I think none of us know ourselves very well.
Like I said above, I have been reading books about what influences us and why we make decisions and I find many of the arguments compelling. Two major reasons we do things are 1) we perceive others making a certain choice and figure that it must therefore be a good choice to make and 2) we follow what are (or appear to be) authoritative instructions. These influences account for most of the decisions we make in life big and small. Yet when we explain our decisions to ourselves we explain them in terms of rational choices and logical arguments. This is not a crackpot theory about human decision making, from what I can gather this is a mainstream consensus in psychology about decision making. As someone who respects expert opinion and academic consensus you could maybe look into it if you are interested. In particular the work Robert Cialdini.
And I think it's a bit incredible to claim to have left JWs and joined a mainstream alternative without any outside influence. If outside influence played no part whatever, why didn't your search for the truth lead to Lutheranism, or the Orthodox Church, or even Jainism, or whatever else? Why did it just happen to lead you to join a church belonging to the dominant Protestant faith in your country? There was no influence from anyone around at all? None? It's an amazing coincidence that a pure search for truth just happens to lead to the church down the road.
Like Dawkins says, children of Anglicans, in normal circumstances, grow up to be Anglicans. It's an accident of birth. We are influenced by the people around us, ex-JWs are no exception.
Was there no friend, no workmate, no family member, no person on the bus, in the gym, or at the local shop, who said anything to you to indicate that leaving JWs might be a good idea and that there was a better alternative that others have chosen? I had many such interactions during my short time as a JW. It's hard for me to tell which were most significant, but they all surely played some part.
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Benefits to Faith over Reason
by cobweb ini wrote this earlier for my own benefit in order to get some thoughts straight in my head.
it is just my own personal pondering on what i think might be the motivating force behind having a faith.
it is not intended to attack, provoke or patronize anyone who has a belief and i hope it is not taken in that way.
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slimboyfat
I personally think that faith is for those not yet equipped emotionally and mentally to deal with reality.
Or maybe reason (or materialist reductionism) is for people who want to escape from the multifaceted and indeterminate nature of reality. It's ironic that it is the same impulse for certainty and definitive answers that drives people into JWs as also drives many former JWs to embrace reductive materialism. It's the same sort of myopia, just different wallpaper.
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Visual Methodologies and Watchtower Illustrations
by slimboyfat ini have been reading a fascinating book about various strategies for studying the meaning of images: visual methodologies by gillian rose.
various approaches covered include compositional analysis, content analysis, psychoanalysis, semiology and discourse analysis.
it struck me how ripe watchtower imagery would be to such scrutiny, and how subtle trends in ideological emphases may be identified through the visual iconography that may be less apparent in the overt expositions of watcthower written texts.
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slimboyfat
Could you post the picture? I can't find it. -
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Latest Metal Detecting Find
by cofty innow the harvest is underway up north i can get out for a walk with the metal detector in the evening.
i am lucky to live on a historic rural estate and i have permission from the landowner to detect.. this is a coin that popped up last night.
it was only about 2 inches deep and had been tumbling around in the plough soil for the last 750 years.. it is a silver penny of king henry iii.
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slimboyfat
Yes we were going to visit few months ago on a Saturday but I looked on a website and the tides dididn't fit. The island itself is called Lindesfarne? I read about this. And about a monk (or abbot?) who lived there and wanted to get away from other people. Even that was not remote enough for him so he went to an even smaller island nearby in order to get away from people. He was killed by a dragon of course. No not really, I just made that part up.
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BIG NEWS! Leader of German Watchtower History Archives Resignes and Leaves Branch Office!
by GermanXJW injohannes wrobel, the founder of the watchtower history archives in germany, responsible for the stand firm-video and the stand-firm-exhibitions resigned in november 2008 and left the german branch office.
he was also the responsible person for many of the wt sponsored websites on jw in the 'third reich'!.
there are no further details known yet but this could be big news!.
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slimboyfat
Very interesting developments.
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Visual Methodologies and Watchtower Illustrations
by slimboyfat ini have been reading a fascinating book about various strategies for studying the meaning of images: visual methodologies by gillian rose.
various approaches covered include compositional analysis, content analysis, psychoanalysis, semiology and discourse analysis.
it struck me how ripe watchtower imagery would be to such scrutiny, and how subtle trends in ideological emphases may be identified through the visual iconography that may be less apparent in the overt expositions of watcthower written texts.
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slimboyfat
I can't remember what this picture looks like. I wonder if there is a copy online.
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JW claims of having the most accurate translation of bible
by StarTrekAngel inis is true at all?
if so, are there any independent sources who have asserted this claim?
who did the translation?.
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slimboyfat
There are a couple of reasons some JW apologists have made the inflated claim that the NWT is the best translation - over and above the fact that it was produced by "God's organisation" of course.
Textual scholar Ernest Colwell produced a list of textual judgements that indicated a Bible translation that followed the best manuscript evidence. At the time the NWT scored best on this scale.
This led some apologists to claim the NWT was the best translation available. But of course this test is about the textual base of the translation not about the quality of the translation itself.
In terms of translation quality, scholar of early Christianity Jason BeDuhn concluded that the NWT was the best compared with other major translations in a book on Bible translation called "Truth in Translation". But he also disagreed with the NWT's use of the divine name in the NT. Others have criticised BeDuhn for focussing almost exclusively on Christological passages and not other controversial aspects of the NWT.
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How do we know JWs are wrong and how do we convince others JWs are wrong: logic versus persuasion
by slimboyfat inwe like to think we are logical and have good reasons for for our beliefs.
no more so than when it comes to our reasons for rejecting the truth claims of jws.
we reject their version of history, such as the date of the fall of jerusalem, because it doesn't agree with the historical evidence.
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slimboyfat
People follow the crowd. We all look around us for clues as to what's the smart thing to do. And we look to authority as well. None more so than JWs.
That's why I think it might be very interesting if JWs start to decline in numbers. It would send a terribly demoralising signal to JWs. That combined with the loss of authority on the part of the GB might pave the way for a disorderly unwinding of some sort, rather than a gradual decline.
David Voas predicted this outcome.
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How do we know JWs are wrong and how do we convince others JWs are wrong: logic versus persuasion
by slimboyfat inwe like to think we are logical and have good reasons for for our beliefs.
no more so than when it comes to our reasons for rejecting the truth claims of jws.
we reject their version of history, such as the date of the fall of jerusalem, because it doesn't agree with the historical evidence.
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slimboyfat
OutLaw there's a difference between what JWs are supposed to do and what they actually do. The very fact that so many Watchtowers warn against: education, marriage outside, friends outside, joining groups in the community, losing contact with Kingdom Hall when relocating, is telling. If these things were not a problem among JWs they wouldn't need to write about it all the time. They warn against these things because they occur so frequently and because they are likely to draw people away from JWs.
Phizzy I'd be really interested to hear your further reflections on why you the decision to leave despite it appearing to be against your interests.
Not to be rude but my impression of people who believe they have left JWs for purely doctrinal reasons is that they are a bit unreflective, not to say enamoured by an idealised version of themselves and motivations.