Yes that's exactly what I believe Xanthippe, but on top of that (listen again carefully) the whole idea of objective truth, the correspondence theory of truth, is bound up with outdated notions of escaping the real world into a world of perfect forms. We are moving beyond that to a more pragmatic engagement with our world that asks, not, how is the world really, in itself, but rather how can we construct the world in the best way to fit our objectives.
slimboyfat
JoinedPosts by slimboyfat
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A question JWs almost never ask, but should
by slimboyfat init occurs to me, if i was starting from scratch choosing a religion or belief system to join, there's one good question i should like answered first:.
does this religion promote a way of life and view of the world that would be satisfying even if not a single word of its doctrines are true?
if jws honestly answered that question i doubt many would say it's a good choice.
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37
A question JWs almost never ask, but should
by slimboyfat init occurs to me, if i was starting from scratch choosing a religion or belief system to join, there's one good question i should like answered first:.
does this religion promote a way of life and view of the world that would be satisfying even if not a single word of its doctrines are true?
if jws honestly answered that question i doubt many would say it's a good choice.
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slimboyfat
Really Cofty? How much closer? I can say Glasgow is closer than Edinburgh. It's a reasonable statement to make, and I can clarify that it is 40 miles closer or 55 minutes closer by car.
So if it is actually true that statement 1 is "closer" to reality than statement 2 can you tell me how much "closer"? Ten miles closer? Three minutes closer? Five decibels closer?
If you can't tell me how much closer in any sensible scientific language, then you really need to ask yourself what you mean by "closer" in this context.
Is it closer in the sense that one piece of music is closer to fitting a scene than another? Then we are in the realm of making aesthetic judgements not objective statements about reality.
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A question JWs almost never ask, but should
by slimboyfat init occurs to me, if i was starting from scratch choosing a religion or belief system to join, there's one good question i should like answered first:.
does this religion promote a way of life and view of the world that would be satisfying even if not a single word of its doctrines are true?
if jws honestly answered that question i doubt many would say it's a good choice.
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slimboyfat
We can use language to describe and communicate something that is close enough to reality for all practical purposes.
This statement misunderstands the relationship between language and reality. Language is not a window onto reality. No statement is closer to reality than any other. In this respect language is more like music than mathematics. For example we may feel that a certain piece of music better captures a landscape or a situation than another piece of music does. And we could discuss which piece of music fits the scene or situation better and give reasons one way or the other. Reasons that include reference to tone, melody, pace, emotion, length, circumstance of production, or whatever. But if someone was to join the conversation and insist that one piece of music was "objectively" closer to describing the reality of the scene or the situation than the other, we would immediately realise that the person has completely misunderstood the nature of music, the nature of reality, and the relation between the two.
It is similarly wrongheaded to insist that certain linguistic utterances are "close" to reality. Statements should be judged for their practical, ethical, and aesthetic qualities. Appeals to their "proximity" to reality make as much sense as measuring the metric distance between stupidity and ignorance.
Cofty it occurs to me that the problem here may in part be that you've never read about structural linguistics. You decry people who reject evolution without reading about it. Before ridiculing non-realist conceptions of language maybe you should make some time to understand the theoretical basis of the ideas your are criticising first. In particular the nature of the sign, composed of signifier and signified. Then how the relation between the two is arbitrary and (this is the poststructuralist insight) inevitably slippery and subject to deference/difference. That's what Derrida is all about, by the way, in a single sentence, on my reading anyway. Not obscurantist or empty, rather straightforward and profound.
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A question JWs almost never ask, but should
by slimboyfat init occurs to me, if i was starting from scratch choosing a religion or belief system to join, there's one good question i should like answered first:.
does this religion promote a way of life and view of the world that would be satisfying even if not a single word of its doctrines are true?
if jws honestly answered that question i doubt many would say it's a good choice.
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slimboyfat
Why Xanthippe? I absolutely do mean that the practical effects of a belief system matter much more than any supposed "truth" value, or correspomdance to reality. This video, I've shared a number of times, is an excellent description of the situation that I agree with.
I belive there's a real world out there, of course. What I doubt is the ability of us humans ever to finally capture that reality in language. I belive in the reality of the external world. What I disbelieve is the correspondance theory of truth.
So the question: does this religion promote a view of the world and way of life I am happy to experience without regard for any considerations of the 'transcendent'.
Is infinitely more relevant and important than the dumb question: are the things this religion teaches about the world true in the sense of corresponding to physical reality?
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Using the Search on This Forum
by BluesBrother ini often look at the search button to see if a topic has been posted, but all the replies seem in random date order with many very old , and not running in order.. can anybody give any tips for finding recent threads, if they have been posted?.
thanks.
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slimboyfat
Advanced Google search using this website at the domain.
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37
A question JWs almost never ask, but should
by slimboyfat init occurs to me, if i was starting from scratch choosing a religion or belief system to join, there's one good question i should like answered first:.
does this religion promote a way of life and view of the world that would be satisfying even if not a single word of its doctrines are true?
if jws honestly answered that question i doubt many would say it's a good choice.
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slimboyfat
I'm thinking of the many JWs who say: "I'd love to learn violin, I'll do it in the new system". Or are interested in politics or animal welfare or whatever, but put it aside because the "end" is coming soon.
Having children, education, a love life at all if you are gay, travelling the world ("in the new system we'll travel the world by yacht" heard that one?), pursue an art or craft. Often pushed aside for "the sake of the kingdom".
JW ideology inhibits a good life now. Some other religions are actually capable of promoting a good life not hindering it.
On some level JWs are aware that being a JW is a recipe for a miserable life here and now. They accept it because they think there is better to come.
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A question JWs almost never ask, but should
by slimboyfat init occurs to me, if i was starting from scratch choosing a religion or belief system to join, there's one good question i should like answered first:.
does this religion promote a way of life and view of the world that would be satisfying even if not a single word of its doctrines are true?
if jws honestly answered that question i doubt many would say it's a good choice.
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slimboyfat
It occurs to me, if I was starting from scratch choosing a religion or belief system to join, there's one good question I should like answered first:
Does this religion promote a way of life and view of the world that would be satisfying even if not a single word of its doctrines are true?
If JWs honestly answered that question I doubt many would say it's a good choice. Yet other religions and belief systems probably could pass that test. In fact I read a book, "Good and Bad Religion" by Peter Vardy, that encourages such a practical evaluation of religion on that basis. He asks whether the religion promotes freedom, creativity, compassion and so on. JWs must score very poorly on all these.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Good-Bad-Religion-Peter-Vardy/dp/0334043492/
This approach to evaluating JWs and religion generally is much more productive that merely an evaluation of whether the doctrines are "true".
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Now this is weird, ever heard of the "Mandela Effect" ??? What if... ?
by Greybeard innow this is weird, ever heard of the "mandela effect" ???
i know how crazy it sounds but i got to tell you, this article about the governing body finally admitting the "faithful slave" was not divinely appointed by jesus in 1919 was epic to me.
like a mandela effect feeling.
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slimboyfat
Never heard of Mandella effect before. I just visited the twilight zone of the Internet. Can't say I'm convinced. Has this got something to do with Jung's ideas on synchronicity. Can't help thinking it's all attempts to ascribe meaning to reality that doesn't belong there.
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Awesome Article From An Old Friend Of Ours
by freemindfade inand a good friend of mine.
i know for exjw-political reasons this link won't work on here, but its worth copying and pasting to read.
enjoy!.
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slimboyfat
I watched the shunning one it was pretty good.
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"Shunning" - now a Watchtower word?
by slimboyfat ini know jws have long used the word "shun" in a general sense, as in "shun what is bad".
but i think they have long avoided using the word in relation to disfellowshipping.
in external media or literature wherever the word "shunning" was used in a piece about jws it was usually a good indication it was critical of watchtower and not a neutral or supportive commentary.
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slimboyfat
It's perhaps careless rather than design. I can imagine younger Watchtower writers have read media reports that talk about shunning, not realised the word is sort of proscribed in Watchtower speak, and just used it when writing Watchtower material.