Markfromcali

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Posts by Markfromcali

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  4

  Post-symbolic communication

  by Markfromcali in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we are virtuosos at spoken language.

  adults speak with what seems like no effort at all, even though everyday chats might be the most complicated phenomena ever observed.

  i see no reason why new virtuosities in communication could not appear in the future, though it's hard to specify a timeframe.. suppose you're enjoying an advanced future implementation of virtual reality and you can cause spontaneously designed things to appear and act and interact with the ease of sentences pouring forth during an ordinary conversation today.. imagine a means of expression that is a cross between the three great new art forms of the 20th century: jazz improvisation, computer programming, and cinema.

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  Markfromcali

  Well if you look at the entry on the Edge site you'll see he's talking about virtual reality, being an (the?) early VR pioneer. That's why it's called post-symbolic, because as deep as archetypes are it is still symbolic in nature.

  What this doesn't address is what kind of consciousness is needed in order to effectively communicate in terms of these constructs. Obviously it would be rich in a sensory way, but as you point out the psychologically naive can be easily swayed by the underlying messages, which can take the form of propaganda. Our minds would also need to be able to generate forms that are detailed enough in order to make full use of this kind of technology, but on the other hand having the means to do so would enable us to practice and exercise that ability. He mentions the concept of homuncular flexibility which is interesting, where the brain can learn to remap control of different body forms.
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  4

  Post-symbolic communication

  by Markfromcali in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we are virtuosos at spoken language.

  adults speak with what seems like no effort at all, even though everyday chats might be the most complicated phenomena ever observed.

  i see no reason why new virtuosities in communication could not appear in the future, though it's hard to specify a timeframe.. suppose you're enjoying an advanced future implementation of virtual reality and you can cause spontaneously designed things to appear and act and interact with the ease of sentences pouring forth during an ordinary conversation today.. imagine a means of expression that is a cross between the three great new art forms of the 20th century: jazz improvisation, computer programming, and cinema.

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  Markfromcali

  We are virtuosos at spoken language. Adults speak with what seems like no effort at all, even though everyday chats might be the most complicated phenomena ever observed. I see no reason why new virtuosities in communication could not appear in the future, though it's hard to specify a timeframe.

  Suppose you're enjoying an advanced future implementation of Virtual Reality and you can cause spontaneously designed things to appear and act and interact with the ease of sentences pouring forth during an ordinary conversation today.

  Imagine a means of expression that is a cross between the three great new art forms of the 20th century: jazz improvisation, computer programming, and cinema. Suppose you could improvise anything that could be seen in a movie with the speed and facility of a jazz improviser. What would that mean for the sense of connection between you and someone you love?

  http://edge.org/q2007/q07_12.html#lanier
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  23

  Should we be kind to Mentally ILL people?

  by asilentone in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

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  Markfromcali

  It should be noted that framing unusual mental activity as illness limits and colors our perception of such phenomena in the first place. Also, notice how we frame things in terms of the individual as opposed to the collective. It's certainly a good idea to protect yourself, but if one were to look at it in terms of participating in the larger collective then it isn't about one individual helping another individual, you'd be looking at the big picture and how you and others fit into it.

  I'm not all that concerned about the street person, schizophrenics and illness of that variety, I'm more interested in those with a great deal of influence but causes a great deal of harm to a lot of people, either directly or indirectly - AND the fact that they are considered healthy individuals and looked up to whether people agree with their views or not. If we think of these people as healthy because they happen to be high functioning in our society, and yet there's no question as to the harm they cause, shouldn't we re-evaluate what we think of as mental illness, or at least what might be considered serious conditions?

  Attention tends to be attracted to individual, personal drama of some type - but frankly more pervasive pathologies of this type is rather transparent and therefore people hardly notice it, let alone try to understand and address it in any way.
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  23

  Should we be kind to Mentally ILL people?

  by asilentone in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

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  Markfromcali

  Perhaps it's useful to distinguish being kind from being nice in a feel good sense. Certainly we appreciate that if someone is deluded in their thinking it's a kindness to clear things up if possible, but they probably wouldn't feel too good about it at least or a time. But if kindness is only thought of in terms of being nice then that tends to favor sparing peoples feelings even if they remain in the dark, because conflict, whether internal or external isn't considered kind.

  In terms of mental illness though, obviously there's an issue of stability.
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  23

  Should we be kind to Mentally ILL people?

  by asilentone in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

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  Markfromcali

  I see. Well you can be kind without reinforcing their delusions, in the case of JWs it probably doesn't fit into or works well with their delusions, especially if there is an irrational distrust of mental health professionals. I once knew a bro from another country that was married to someone that had issues, it seems clear there are not many who are thoughtful and understanding if nothing else, even if there are meds prescribed which they end up not taking - it just seems to be the way of the JW culture.
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  40

  Ok, I want to get opinions on this!

  by sabastious in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  3 years ago i was in a very deep depression.. i had recently gotten diagnosed with bipolar disorder 2 as well as a bad case of ptsd.. i was on the verge of suicide, i thought about it every day, every hour it seemed.. then something extraordinary happened.. it was the middle of the night, 2am.

  i had been having bouts of insomnia for months now and was up very late.. just for the hell of it, i googled my full name: alex strait.. i found a recent news article that came up.. turns out just a few weeks earlier a 23 year old man named alex strait had been found in a park after he committed suicide.. that was pretty freaky.. the next day i get an email from someone.. turns out his fiance found my website (i am a web developer by trade) that gave a description of my ailment and journey (through random googleing).

  she emailed me through my website and asked if it was her alex strait that had killed himself.

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  Markfromcali

  Nor do you need an opinion or any idea about it, period. But people love having opinions and beliefs about all sorts of things one way or the other, like they just can't help themselves.

  But hey, we don't believe in the JW doctrine anymore.. Ours goes to 11.
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  40

  Ok, I want to get opinions on this!

  by sabastious in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  3 years ago i was in a very deep depression.. i had recently gotten diagnosed with bipolar disorder 2 as well as a bad case of ptsd.. i was on the verge of suicide, i thought about it every day, every hour it seemed.. then something extraordinary happened.. it was the middle of the night, 2am.

  i had been having bouts of insomnia for months now and was up very late.. just for the hell of it, i googled my full name: alex strait.. i found a recent news article that came up.. turns out just a few weeks earlier a 23 year old man named alex strait had been found in a park after he committed suicide.. that was pretty freaky.. the next day i get an email from someone.. turns out his fiance found my website (i am a web developer by trade) that gave a description of my ailment and journey (through random googleing).

  she emailed me through my website and asked if it was her alex strait that had killed himself.

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  Markfromcali

  It sounds to me like you don't need anybodys opinion on this. And why should anyone else have an opinion about it? It's your experience.
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  23

  Should we be kind to Mentally ILL people?

  by asilentone in

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  Markfromcali

  In view of that, there is the question of enabling their addiction or any other unhealthy behavior, maybe this is what asilentone was getting at. Being kind is something that's very general, without understanding or even knowing anything specific not much can be said.
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  23

  Should we be kind to Mentally ILL people?

  by asilentone in

  1. jw
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  Markfromcali

  Sure it's not what you're looking for, but on the general topic..

  It kind of depends on the illness. From what I understand the typical goal of therapy is to reinforce the ego structure, but I can see that in a larger social context if someone was doing a lot of harm to others, and even considered healthy or high functioning in some sense it may be appropriate to do the opposite - not the opposite of being kind, but the opposite of reinforcing the ego. The thing with that is if you simply wound it there will be adaptations and defenses etc. and could very well be counter productive in the end, so the only way that it would work is probably if you basically destroy it in a kind of sudden movement, which would be very disorienting and one would be left less than functional at least for a while. It is also possible for a certain portion of someones mindset to just fall apart suddenly, but as you can imagine it's not something easily done and you certainly wouldn't be able to do it if you saw people in a stereotypical way. The thing is from this kind of perspective, you may be aware of the ego dynamics, in fact probably more so but to see people in the same way they do would be myopic.

  Not sure if this is of any interest. Why do you ask?
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  38

  JW's are not nice people

  by Nickolas in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i cut and pasted the subject line from a comment made by one of this board's longtime members.

  it got me wondering if this is the prevalent thinking in here.

  for a very long time i believed that jw's and all fundamentalist christian folk are a cut above the norm.

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  Markfromcali

  Just because the indoctrination does not form a "new personality" in any real transformative sense it doesn't mean there was not a nice one there to start with, although it is certainly possible for that to be distorted. Frankly I don't really believe in the JW identity in the end even if they do, any effort at relating to them as a JW essentially reinforces that identity. Opportunities for real dialogue will be missed if I buy into this self image they try to project, those opportunities are rare enough. Of course, it is possible that what's underneath is also not so "nice" anyway depending on the individual, but that's not the same as associating it with the JWism.