Posts by dubstepped

Oh look, fuck off Bobby or Richard "I'm gay but it's the truth" Oliver or whoever you are this time, is spinning again. Of course you chose words carefully, like your cult you have to spin. I never defined sexism, and you're trying to redirect the thread like you do everything.

You speak only out of concern for the appearance of your cult. I speak out of concern for the people in your cult. I'm concerned about the culture of pedophile protection, and you're concerned about numbers. I'm concerned about the impact on women, one of which has a story I'm listening to as your manipulative ramblings here continue, and you're concerned about defining sexism and trying to determine the direction of the thread by obfuscating, which is predictably all you do.

You still haven't answered any of my questions, since you brought it up, about your personal feelings as to the culture of not reporting in your cult that does exist in whatever numbers. You've not answered my question regarding your namesake and what exactly you doubt. You are all ego, all troll, seeking to craft an argument you can win rather than dealing with the truths at hand.

I don't even care what the definition of sexism is. I do care about the women that are dominated in the cult through doctrine and through the misogyny that pervades relationships between the sexes. Do you? Are you married? Do you have any girls?

26

Sisters handling mic's

by I Faded Twice in

jw
friends

i saw a topic on another forum where a sister was supposedly carrying the mics.

i was curious if this was even possible?

is it new light or just a lie?.

dubstepped

Women stay in abusive relationships with men too. That doesn't mean they aren't being abused. According to Pew Research women are simply drawn more to religion than men.

I love how trolls try to take one small aspect of something out of context and use it to make points. It's almost like they learned it from their pedi protecting cult that jumps around the Bible trying to string together a coherent narrative.

Try harder.

26

Sisters handling mic's

by I Faded Twice in

jw
friends

i saw a topic on another forum where a sister was supposedly carrying the mics.

i was curious if this was even possible?

is it new light or just a lie?.

dubstepped

If there are no qualified brothers, sure a sister can do it. There's no new light to that, it's just a rarity I think. If I'm thinking of the same post that you saw I believe they were in a congregation of like 20-30. Now that sister can't say a prayer (without a napkin on her head) or give a talk (without another sister as a participant) but she can do a task in the congregation that isn't considered teaching if there is nobody else with a penis to do it.

27

In search of custody hearing advice ...

by dubstepped in

i don't have kids, but i recently found that someone with kids that lives in my town is also an ex-jw.

she just happened to post on an apostafest thread on facebook for an event that i attended, saw that we lived in the same place, and i met her for the first time tonight.

pretty cool.. she has a 14 year old boy that is super smart and very articulate.

dubstepped

I love all the points about their views on the freedom of religion. I think those may help, though it doesn't change laws it may sway a judge somewhat.

Thanks for the links Barbara. I think she may have looked into Dan but couldn't afford something there. I'll let her know though. I may be wrong, the name rang a bell from last night's conversation.

All of this will go to help not just in this case, but she has a group of people in similar situations and they've bounced ideas around and got 5 kids out already. However every judge and circumstance is unique.

27

In search of custody hearing advice ...

by dubstepped in

i don't have kids, but i recently found that someone with kids that lives in my town is also an ex-jw.

she just happened to post on an apostafest thread on facebook for an event that i attended, saw that we lived in the same place, and i met her for the first time tonight.

pretty cool.. she has a 14 year old boy that is super smart and very articulate.

dubstepped

Oooh, I like that point Ding.

Actually, the young man is in ROTC at school, so military angles could be used. He can't get baptized anyway as it would be a useless exercise that would cause him to ultimately lose his family if he pursued a military course.

Thanks for all of the links and points. I've seen that custody booklet before. It's so manipulative and disgusting.

27

In search of custody hearing advice ...

by dubstepped in

i don't have kids, but i recently found that someone with kids that lives in my town is also an ex-jw.

she just happened to post on an apostafest thread on facebook for an event that i attended, saw that we lived in the same place, and i met her for the first time tonight.

pretty cool.. she has a 14 year old boy that is super smart and very articulate.

dubstepped

More good suggestions, thank you all.

I think the dad's attorney is some low cost one that seems to be a mess. They just tried to sneak something by before the hearing and apparently the judge isn't happy with them right now. Still, the judge seems to be on the side of equity when it comes to religious freedom of both parents.

I think that the kid testifying in his own behalf would be invaluable. A letter would at least be a start. It's not up to me. This all started when he was 12. Maybe as he ages the judge will take him more seriously.

27

In search of custody hearing advice ...

by dubstepped in

i don't have kids, but i recently found that someone with kids that lives in my town is also an ex-jw.

she just happened to post on an apostafest thread on facebook for an event that i attended, saw that we lived in the same place, and i met her for the first time tonight.

pretty cool.. she has a 14 year old boy that is super smart and very articulate.

dubstepped

Lots of good stuff here. I think she wants me involved to back her up. Her ex has an attorney but apparently he's not great from what she says. I'm hoping the kiddo will testify, I like the idea of a letter.

I'm jumping in somewhat blind here and just trying to get as many ideas as I can to pass to her because I just had a conversation with her about this tonight. I don't know everything that she's tried, but ideas might help directly or spark another idea indirectly.

I just figure if I can take a day and make myself available to tell what I know by helping people to tell their stories of what living that life as a kid can do to kids, even some that I've seen come on here that struggle so much as the pressure to get baptized ramps up, then it will be worth it. If it doesn't pay off in this hearing, it may in a future hearing as the evidence accumulates.

This boy was the sweetest kid. Funny, articulate, and it just pissed me off to hear of some of the ways he was being bullied by the dubs. For every one of us, myself included, that was that bullied kid by authoritarian JW parents or elders that cornered and shamed us, I just want to give it my best shot. If I can help, awesome. If I can't, I tried.

One good thing is that the ex husband should have his health insurance up for the kid's use about two weeks before the hearing. Not fast enough to get anything done for this hearing, but it should be able to provide him access to counseling before any further hearings.

I'm not sure how long this has gone on. It sounds like the child support payment thing may be a recent decision and he's already fighting it and the judge got mad and told him to just prove he can comply with the order first before discussing anything else further. I don't know the ins and outs, and was trying to piece together things here and there, but it doesn't sound like the judge is super happy with the dad.

Thanks for the great feedback!

27

In search of custody hearing advice ...

by dubstepped in

i don't have kids, but i recently found that someone with kids that lives in my town is also an ex-jw.

she just happened to post on an apostafest thread on facebook for an event that i attended, saw that we lived in the same place, and i met her for the first time tonight.

pretty cool.. she has a 14 year old boy that is super smart and very articulate.

dubstepped

Yeah, to date the judge has been reluctant to let the kid testify because he doesn't want to put him in that position, or so I was told. The kid wants to testify. From what his mom said she was planning on having him there so she could call him to testify if she wanted.

I like the advice and will pass it along. Thanks!

27

In search of custody hearing advice ...

by dubstepped in

i don't have kids, but i recently found that someone with kids that lives in my town is also an ex-jw.

she just happened to post on an apostafest thread on facebook for an event that i attended, saw that we lived in the same place, and i met her for the first time tonight.

pretty cool.. she has a 14 year old boy that is super smart and very articulate.

dubstepped

I don't have kids, but I recently found that someone with kids that lives in my town is also an ex-JW. She just happened to post on an Apostafest thread on Facebook for an event that I attended, saw that we lived in the same place, and I met her for the first time tonight. Pretty cool.

She has a 14 year old boy that is super smart and very articulate. There is shared custody between his mom and dad. Dad is an active JW, with lots of JW family around. Kid doesn't want to go to meetings and conventions and such and wants to just live with his mom. They like to pull him out of meetings if he's not paying attention, take him outside with multiple elders, and tell him he's going to die if he doesn't listen. They like to coach him on how he should manipulate his mom to let him do more JW things too. He can see through it all, but is tired of being subjected to it.

His mom has done her best to help the judge see that this isn't a healthy environment for him. Ultimately though the judge just sees it as a kid that doesn't want to go to church. She has plead her case but this time has the hard evidence from Watchtower publications to show certain things about their beliefs that are unbecoming. At some point baptism came up and the father said that disfellowshipping doesn't break family ties, which we all know is baloney, even sometimes when kids are young and at home it gets super ugly.

The dad has messed around financially and tried to get child support lowered, though he's still never paid a dime. Mom was hoping to get her son into counseling to have a counselor state that the cult doctrine is unhealthy and to get her son's take on things to present to the court, but the dad quit his job and started a new one so that he has no insurance leading up to this next hearing so there's no money for a counselor.

Apparently in these hearings mom and dad can present what they want. Mom has tried in the past but wasn't armed with hard copies of certain publications which she has now. She has asked if I would testify as to the impact of the cult, shunning (especially since I do the podcast and can show that it indeed destroys families), and just whatever she needs.

It seems like the biggest issue for the judge is that he sees it as freedom of religion, though clearly it is only mom and dad that have that freedom. Dad has the right to indoctrinate his child, mom has the right to go against that. So proving that it is harmful to the child who is 14 might be of help, but the way it works is that you can't just show what even an expert like Steve Hassan has to say without having him there in person. There are some ex-JWs that will come testify but one of them wanted $8,000 to do so and they all charge for their services. I get that too, to a point, but we're talking a 4 hour drive and 2 hour hearing. I'm charging nothing, and I'd like to make sure that whatever I can provide is at least worth the cost.

So, if the main argument is that the judge just sees it as religious rights of both parents superseding the rights of the child, what angles might be taken? Any ideas? Mine was to show that it is unhealthy doctrine, which is an option. Apparently since dad has said that he gets his beliefs from the elite eight those WT publications are in play without the morons at the top being present. I tried to get her to say that she's a worshiper of cult experts to get their testimony allowed, but I guess your fantasy has to claim religious status to be accepted as is.

I'll take any advice and forward it on. I can only testify at the direction of the mom and upon the cross examination of the dad's attorney. She cannot afford one. She cannot afford a counselor on her own either. So she's at somewhat of a disadvantage, not that it may make a difference if the judge sees it merely as simple religious rights without the kid really having any.