Posts by OrphanCrow

60

Does The Governing Body Have Enemies At Bethel?

by Brokeback Watchtower in

i would think that a lot of resentment is building up for these for these guys at bethel even though it may not be discussed openly for fear of being abused by the gb in some way.. any way looking at their personality and the extreme phoniness of rubber mouth/face lett, and am#3, and the chicken shit coward leosch who won't even show up in court when subpoena'd to defend his faith or policies, and i'm sure they have many more undesirable traits that repel people instead of attract and that has to work its toll on relationships they have at bethel.. and this shunning thing i'm sure must really erk some at god's house and while they may not be free to voice their discontent i feel it must be building because these guys are complete nincompoops when it come to reality and the only way they know how to give direction is with fear and guilt which i'm sure is rubbing a lot of people the wrong way.. and let not forget the issues that are raise when they stole all the congregations savings and the pledge drive for more cash, ban on higher education, lawsuit pay out and etc.... what is this doing to the relation ship they have with legal and accounting i see trouble brewing right thier in the spiritual pair of dice..

OrphanCrow

@Orphan.
I mentioned the two I know were missionaries, just like me. How many green handshakes you think you get in third world countries? We hardly had money to Buy a decent bottle of wine on saturday nights.

You are absolutely right. The missionaries who are also Society members who worked in third world countries would have little opportunity to shake green hands.

But, not all of the Society men work in third world countries. Some of them rub shoulders with prominent JWs (and non-JWs) who are heavily invested in blood management or run bloodless surgery hospitals, and some show up at FDA hearings about artificial blood. Some of them are in charge of securing paper supplies (Henwood court case, if you want details), and some are in close contact with real estate brokers....etc., etc.

When someone offers evidence that the Society men are underpaid, it just adds more weight to the possibility of there being other Society men, who are also underpaid, that aren't so complacent in their low paying positions and who succumb to the temptation of increasing their disposable income by accepting 'gifts' in exchange for favors.

vidiot: I have to say, if the GB do have any "enemies" at WTHQ, it's 'cause they made 'em.

Yes. It is like the large scale employers like chain corporations who hire large staffs at minimum wage. Their biggest problem isn't customer theft, it is employee theft. I wouldn't be surprised if petty theft is a big issue in the WT compounds/Bethels.

As far as enemies of the GB go, the ones who are most likely to revolt are ones like the poor missionaries in third world countries, that are sincere and honest in their commitments, getting pissed because they find out that not all of the Society men are cut from the same cloth. Unfortunately, those sincere Society men are powerless. They have no money or influence. They only have their single vote and it isn't worth much if they say anything - they will get tossed on their ear before they get a chance to organize enough like minded ones who also have a vote.

6

Father's day approaching, can we get some respect.

by James Mixon in

jw
friends

father's day got its start in unlikely spot.. commentary robert rector.

moms have been worshipped since time immemorial.

dad not so much.. to hear tell, the first father's day was held in spokane, wash., in 1910.. the suggestion of a father's day was often met with laughter, but when.

OrphanCrow

the first Father's Day was held in Spokane, Wash., in 1910.

The first Mother's Day was held in 1908.

Moms have been worshipped since time immemorial. Dad not so much.

Our Father, who art in heaven...

150

Disfellowshipping Image

by naazira in

jw
friends

this photo can be found in the april 15 , study edition article titled:.

why disfellowshipping is a loving provision.

just by looking at this image we can see how quickly the barrier between the congregation and former member is put up, after the announcement that this sister is no longer one of jehovah's witneses.

OrphanCrow

Do you think professors of "the academic discipline of art history" give credits to students who see imaginary demons and ape heads in a crap illustration? Really?

Yes.

150

Disfellowshipping Image

by naazira in

jw
friends

this photo can be found in the april 15 , study edition article titled:.

why disfellowshipping is a loving provision.

just by looking at this image we can see how quickly the barrier between the congregation and former member is put up, after the announcement that this sister is no longer one of jehovah's witneses.

OrphanCrow

cofty: People are making far-fetched assertions about the intent of the artists/s.

I am objecting to the nonsense about hidden demons and crosses and ape heads.

Those visual symbols - whether intentional or not - are no longer hidden when they are perceived to be there. They are visible, not hidden. Even if they are not visible to everybody - everyone approaches an image with their own cultural biases and those cultural biases are not inclusive to all peoples.

They are only hidden if you refuse to recognize them or lack the ability to do so or lack the cultural understandings that others come equipped with.

Please respond to what I actually wrote

Many of the observations that have been made on this thread about what has been 'seen' in the image make no claim whatsoever as to the intent of the producer of that image. None. No claims. So, take your own advice, Cofty, and don't ask people to respond to what you actually wrote when you don't do the same yourself.

Xanthippie - good post about iconography. The image has been far more prevalent and influential in history than the text ever was in the proliferation of religious beliefs. The language of the image is as important as the language of text when decoding how religion transmits belief in doctrine.

And the people who study the power of the image, and teach or study it in university classes, would be more than glad to refund the money of anybody who would rather pursue other branches of knowledge. Different strokes for different folks.

60

Does The Governing Body Have Enemies At Bethel?

by Brokeback Watchtower in

i would think that a lot of resentment is building up for these for these guys at bethel even though it may not be discussed openly for fear of being abused by the gb in some way.. any way looking at their personality and the extreme phoniness of rubber mouth/face lett, and am#3, and the chicken shit coward leosch who won't even show up in court when subpoena'd to defend his faith or policies, and i'm sure they have many more undesirable traits that repel people instead of attract and that has to work its toll on relationships they have at bethel.. and this shunning thing i'm sure must really erk some at god's house and while they may not be free to voice their discontent i feel it must be building because these guys are complete nincompoops when it come to reality and the only way they know how to give direction is with fear and guilt which i'm sure is rubbing a lot of people the wrong way.. and let not forget the issues that are raise when they stole all the congregations savings and the pledge drive for more cash, ban on higher education, lawsuit pay out and etc.... what is this doing to the relation ship they have with legal and accounting i see trouble brewing right thier in the spiritual pair of dice..

OrphanCrow

@Orphan. Whether they did or do it for love, I don't know. I answered the question if the members have profit or not. That's all. And No they havent they were pooor as rats.

Of course they were poor. They all are. Poor as rats.

Except for the ones who get the right kind of handshake. There has been threads on this forum about the green handshake. Gifts. Large ones in some cases. Gifts are way, way better than income or profit.

Rats like gifts. No tax on gifts.

Keeping them poor as rats is part of the religion scam - they have to be poor to show a nonprofit status. But I have heard of some who retire quite nicely on the greenhandshake retirement fund they have built up during the time that they were 'poor as rats'.

I think the Society - those 300 to 500 men - are the ones who are Branch Overseers etc. They don't take a wage - they work really hard and are loyal because who they work for are the ones who are really paying them - the ones with green hands are their bosses.

Because Society men are poor, they are vulnerable to corruption. There are many who make their spending money on the side or under the table. The Society does business like a crime syndicate does - in cold hard cash.

There are opportunities for Society men who are in the right positions to siphon money from the WTS. For example, think of the Society men who were in charge of buying paper several years back. Three of them dealt with one salesman. The salesman was paid a commission larger than usual for the industry, the paper price was inflated, and the salesman was assured his position for many years...with no contract. Nothing in writing.

I know of only two kinds of businesses that do business without contracts - the incompetent ones that go belly up...or criminal businesses. Criminals don't put anything in writing either.

In the criminal world, cash gifts are given for favours. For jobs well done. Or for work yet to be expected. I betcha the green handshakes that happen behind closed doors of the Society, have the power to even influence doctrine.

150

Disfellowshipping Image

by naazira in

jw
friends

this photo can be found in the april 15 , study edition article titled:.

why disfellowshipping is a loving provision.

just by looking at this image we can see how quickly the barrier between the congregation and former member is put up, after the announcement that this sister is no longer one of jehovah's witneses.

OrphanCrow

This is the sort of conversation that would be called a critique of the image in any one of several university classes. This is the sort of conversation that would occur in a Media Studies Class, a photographic theory class, a cultural studies class....etc...

It is not paranoia - it is dismantling the meaning of visual language in an attempt to understand it. You know, like exjws do with the doctrine and Bibble - they dismantle it, they take it apart, they scrutinize it.

They throw ideas around to try to understand the text - not all of those ideas are correct, or logical...some ideas about doctrine are pretty paranoid and some are completely off the wall.

And guess what? They aren't ridiculed for it. Exjws aren't called paranoid when they take apart say....the 1914 doctrine, or maybe the blood doctrine, for example, as it is written in alphabetic text. But those same posters will deride somebody because they make visual associations with a Wt image.

Yes, now that I am thinking about it...exjws ARE paranoid - I wonder why that is??? Would it have anything to do with the power of the image to make associations at an individual level? The meaning of any image cannot be controlled as much as the meaning of text can be - an image is fluid - it can mean something different to each viewer. Each person can see the image in their own way.

If someone sees a cross in the image, or whatever else they see, they should state what it is they see, what it means to them and why. That is exactly how a viewer takes control of the image rather than letting the image control them.

There is no one meaning to an image - it doesn't mean the same thing to each and every person who sees it - and not everybody sees the same things in it.

Ridiculing someone for trying to read the image is the same as the illiterate man who ridicules a child for learning their abc's.

46

We are slowly moving away from that kind of preaching work

by oppostate in

john hoyle--jws go knocking on strangers doors and try to get inside homes to preach.. wt rep--we are slowly moving away from that kind of preaching work, we do more preaching by using literature carts and personal telephone calls.. .

the above quote is from john hoyle's website:http://insidethewatchtower.com/doctrine/phone-calls-to-bethel-jw-org-email-and-contacts/.

it's interesting, isn't it?

OrphanCrow

3rdgen: If I were still "in" I would be THRILLED if dtd were "optional"
The masses will be relieved that it is so much easier to be a JW these days. I hate to say it but I think it is a smart move by the WTBT$

Hell, yeah. Stay home on Saturday morning for the latest episode in "Caleb and Sophie".

Replace the publisher hours with hours of JW..org indoctrination - complete with the weekly episode of "Money Time!"

Baptized member of JWs? Well, tune in...Tony's next!!!

*to add - mind you, that membership base could also double up as workers in the "fundraising campaigns". You know, going door-to-door like charities do. The term 'publisher' is going to be sort of like the 'fundraiser' role in nonprofit and charitable organization terms. That way, they can do their duty and do invites and such. Advertising in neighborhoods of upcoming events - part of the 'fundraising team' activities. That would be why the Canadian tax returns for congregations now have "fundraiser" listed as a position.

60

Does The Governing Body Have Enemies At Bethel?

by Brokeback Watchtower in

i would think that a lot of resentment is building up for these for these guys at bethel even though it may not be discussed openly for fear of being abused by the gb in some way.. any way looking at their personality and the extreme phoniness of rubber mouth/face lett, and am#3, and the chicken shit coward leosch who won't even show up in court when subpoena'd to defend his faith or policies, and i'm sure they have many more undesirable traits that repel people instead of attract and that has to work its toll on relationships they have at bethel.. and this shunning thing i'm sure must really erk some at god's house and while they may not be free to voice their discontent i feel it must be building because these guys are complete nincompoops when it come to reality and the only way they know how to give direction is with fear and guilt which i'm sure is rubbing a lot of people the wrong way.. and let not forget the issues that are raise when they stole all the congregations savings and the pledge drive for more cash, ban on higher education, lawsuit pay out and etc.... what is this doing to the relation ship they have with legal and accounting i see trouble brewing right thier in the spiritual pair of dice..

OrphanCrow

fulano: Both loyal, dedicated and hard working men. No way they had any profit on it.

Of course. I have no doubt of that.

They have to be loyal. That is a mandatory requirement for membership in the Society.

Of course they were hard working. What do you attribute that hard work to? Love for Jehovah?

46

We are slowly moving away from that kind of preaching work

by oppostate in

john hoyle--jws go knocking on strangers doors and try to get inside homes to preach.. wt rep--we are slowly moving away from that kind of preaching work, we do more preaching by using literature carts and personal telephone calls.. .

the above quote is from john hoyle's website:http://insidethewatchtower.com/doctrine/phone-calls-to-bethel-jw-org-email-and-contacts/.

it's interesting, isn't it?

OrphanCrow

So, if the goal is to eliminate the door to door work, and only use cart witnessing, and the carts are only manned by pioneers, what happens to the "publisher" status? I think that status will disappear, to be replaced with "baptized member".

Again, my soap box....I think this is part of the restructuring going on to make the taxman happy.

The WTS has to increase "membership" numbers to show the taxman that the organization is supported by membership donations. The elders can't be "members". They are "clergy" now. The pioneers are the "volunteer force" or maybe part of "The Order" and the baptized ones are "members".

The WTS is restructuring to make itself operate like all the other religions.

So the publisher will disappear.They are not going to need them. They will just be "members". Which explains why the babies are getting baptized - they can't be counted in the unbaptized publisher count anymore as members - that category won't exist.

Besides, a large portion of their literature distribution is targeted to foreign languages. The literature will simply be used for in-house indoctrination and 'given' to the members. Who will donate money back to them.

Or the literature will be sold to foreign countries as part of literacy programming. That is a good use for the printing facilities and such - sell religious propaganda to foreign countries and call it 'language revitalization'.

The publisher status will no longer be useful. It will disappear. But the baptized status is the up and coming parameters of what defines "membership" rules in the JW religion.

It is all part of the same picture - the taxman is looking real hard at the WTS - they don't make changes unless they have to and they don't want to give up that tax free status - it's their golden ticket to heaven.

*to add - Oh yeah, I can't wait to hear the spin on this one. They will stop the door to door work and the JWs will shake in their boots - it will be that time "when the preaching work is stopped!!!!"...when? tada! Right Before The End!!!!!! The WTS has already been sowing the seeds for that one in recent Watchtowers.

In the meantime, the WTS is chuckling because over across the big pond somewhere, or in a warm sunny clime on the south half of this planet, they will be shaking the hand of some government official after signing another contract for a shipment of the latest 'literacy' aids to them.

60

Does The Governing Body Have Enemies At Bethel?

by Brokeback Watchtower in

i would think that a lot of resentment is building up for these for these guys at bethel even though it may not be discussed openly for fear of being abused by the gb in some way.. any way looking at their personality and the extreme phoniness of rubber mouth/face lett, and am#3, and the chicken shit coward leosch who won't even show up in court when subpoena'd to defend his faith or policies, and i'm sure they have many more undesirable traits that repel people instead of attract and that has to work its toll on relationships they have at bethel.. and this shunning thing i'm sure must really erk some at god's house and while they may not be free to voice their discontent i feel it must be building because these guys are complete nincompoops when it come to reality and the only way they know how to give direction is with fear and guilt which i'm sure is rubbing a lot of people the wrong way.. and let not forget the issues that are raise when they stole all the congregations savings and the pledge drive for more cash, ban on higher education, lawsuit pay out and etc.... what is this doing to the relation ship they have with legal and accounting i see trouble brewing right thier in the spiritual pair of dice..

OrphanCrow

Brokeback: Perhaps if the liquidate everything they can settle with all the share holders then for a profit

No, I don't think that the shareholders could receive profit from the liquidation of a non-profit organization. The shares have no monetary value and the shareholders cannot profit from the liquidation of it.

The money would have to be laundered out somehow. There are lots of ways to do that. Eh..there is probably a lot of soapy money floating around that has had the WT logo washed off it.