Posts by OrphanCrow

16

Interesting point about elders appointment by holy spirit (apostacy case)

by joe134cd in

i was just listening to a jc for apostasy on jwstruggle.

the issue was raised if elders are appointed by holy spirit, then why is there such an issue with sex abuse.

the answer was given (and i thought it was quite true) well jesus was the son of god and he appointed judas under holy spirit, just to have him turn on him.

OrphanCrow

The illogical reasoning that the elder used by comparing Judas to elders who either are child rapists or allow child abuse to happen just blows my mind.

So...Judas being appointed by the Holy Spirit is the same as elders being appointed who tolerate child rapists.

Huh.

I see.

Judas was appointed by the Holy Spirit with an ulterior motive - it was a trick to ensure that the prophecy of the Messiah was fulfilled.

Does that mean that the Holy Spirit has an ulterior motive in appointing rapists to a position of authority or by appointing men who won't deal with the issue? And...pray tell...what would that motive be? What prophecy is being fulfilled that children have to be abused to make sure that god's will is done? Why would god need them to be abused?

Does this mean that the children who get raped are the same as Jesus being killed???

Are the elders comparing children to Jesus? Or did Jesus really like babies, after all?

Ah, what the hey...let's cherry pick the same as the elders do:

15And they were bringing even their babies to Him so that He would touch them.....

45

How to Choose a Wife!

by snugglebunny in

jw
friends

back in the day, when my family moved to a new congregation, i fell head over heels with a young sister who was an elder's daughter.

it wasn't long before we were talking about marriage and i was contemplating buying her an engagement ring.

my parents were not happy at all.

OrphanCrow

The WTS seems to have become far more restrictive on their marriage rules than they were back in the day when I was still attending (40+ years ago).

In the congregation I attended, it was not uncommon for JW young people to date 'wordly' people. However, the practice was not encouraged, and if someone was seeing someone 'in the world', the focus was on getting them to convert their prospective partner.

In the late 60s, the head honcho elder's daughter dated an RCMP officer for a length of time before she announced their intention to marry. Her super duper zealous father went into high gear, put the poor fellow through his baptism paces in record time, and then drove several hours to some location obscure location to get him dunked the week before they got married. We all got to see the groom walk down the aisle of the Kingdom Hall in the Queen's red serge uniform.

55

Why the JW's mental image of Paradise is a pipe dream

by Sour Grapes in

yesterday during the witchtower study, every one was.

talking about how wonderful paradise will be with no food.

shortages, perfect weather, no pollution, no disease, and be.

OrphanCrow

vidiot: I've said this before, but in the (admittedly unlikely) event that the WTS were given control over a small country in the present day, I guarantee you that within a decade, democracy would be all but nonexistent, any form of alternative sexual expression would be outlawed, creationism would be mandated in schools, DFed people would be stripped of citizenship and imprisoned or deported, and convicted "apostates" would be sentenced to death without possibility of appeal or reprieve.

And...they would ban any other religion from entering their country to try and convert their followers.

And...they would strip away all First Amendment rights - all the concepts that the WTS fights for in a court of law would be non-existent.

14

Does Anyone Know Where This Picture Came From...

by MADMARY in

it couldn't be from a watchtower cover, right???

does anyone know?.

mm.

OrphanCrow

I have a ginourmous beef with silly internet quotes lol!

Me too! So many of them are irrational and just plain stupid. Especially the Christian platitudes. Those drive me absolutely crazy.

5

Where can I find an online copy of 'Babylon the Great' book published 1963?

by Esse quam videri in

pdf anywhere?

thanks for your help.

OrphanCrow

Magnum: What about Then Is Finished the Mystery of God?

An online copy:

http://www.strictlygenteel.co.uk/mystery/mysterytitles.html

And a download pdf study question booklet:

http://www.strictlygenteel.co.uk/booklets/questions/ThenIsFinished.pdf

14

Does Anyone Know Where This Picture Came From...

by MADMARY in

it couldn't be from a watchtower cover, right???

does anyone know?.

mm.

OrphanCrow

Same image - different text:

http://www.quotesarcade.com/graphics/life/

20

Israeli town council cancels Jehovah’s Witnesses event

by Watchtower-Free in

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/.premium-1.652440.

anti-missionary group yad l'achim had claimed christians were planning a 'mass baptism' and launched protest campaign in ra'anana.. the raanana municipality has canceled an event organized by the jehovahs witnesses in israel, concerned that the religious groups meeting would hurt the feelings of the public.

the event, which should have been held saturday in the raanana municipal sports center, was canceled following pressure by the anti-missionary group yad lachim.

OrphanCrow

2013 Report on International Religious Freedom - Israel, 28 July 2014 published by United States Department of State:

The law recognizes the following religious communities: Eastern Orthodox, Latin (Roman Catholic), Gregorian-Armenian, Armenian-Catholic, Syrian Catholic, Chaldean (Chaldean Uniate Catholic), Greek Catholic Melkite, Maronite, Syrian Orthodox, Druze, Evangelical Episcopal, and Bahai. Other religious communities, including Muslims and major Protestant Christian denominations, have a presence in the country, but are not recognized by the government as "religious communities." Five religious communities have applied for official recognition but their applications have been pending for years: Ethiopian Orthodox, Coptic Orthodox, Evangelical Lutheran Church, Evangelical Alliance of Israel, andJehovah's Witnesses.

Interestingly, because the JWs do not have official recognition, they do not have the authority to conduct marriages:

Members of unrecognized religious groups may practice their beliefs. There is no civil right to marry or divorce in the country for members of unrecognized religious communities, but an authority within one of the recognized religious communities can handle their personal status issues, including marriage, if the authority agrees.

And about proselytizing:

Proselytizing is legal for all religious groups. The law prohibits offering a material benefit as an inducement to conversion. It is also illegal to convert a person under 18 unless one parent is an adherent of the religious group seeking to convert the minor. Despite the legality of proselytism, the government generally discourages proselytizing and encourages the popular perception that it is illegal. The MOI occasionally cites proselytizing as a reason to deny student, work, and religious visa extensions, as well as to deny permanent residency petitions.

The societal view of JWs in Israel:

Societal attitudes toward missionary activities and conversion were generally negative. Most Jews opposed missionary activity directed at Jews, considering it tantamount to religious harassment, and some were hostile to Jewish converts to Christianity. Messianic Jews and Jehovah's Witnesses were reportedly harassed regularly by Yad L'Achim and Lev L'Achim, Jewish religious organizations opposed to missionary activity and intermarriage. There were no violent attacks against Messianic Jews orJehovah's Witnesses.

37

Apostasy Trial - Part 2 - Satan is Using Google

by berrygerry in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=373zbncuuoq

OrphanCrow

An amendment to my earlier post about no 'observers' being allowed at judicial hearings. I forgot about the patriarchal garbage that is spewed forth from the Tower.

After reading some more in the Flock book, I have unearthed this little nugget from pg 84:

11. If the accused is a married sister, it is best
to have her believing husband present for the hearing.
He is her head, and his efforts to restore her and
direct her can be very helpful. (1 Cor. 11:3) If unusual
circumstances are involved or the elders feel it would
be best not to invite the husband because of their
concerns for the safety of the wife, the elders should
call the branch office.
12. If the accused is a married brother, his
wife would normally not attend the hearing. However,
if the husband wants his wife to be present, she
may attend a portion of the hearing. The judicial
committee should maintain confidentiality.

So, if you are a lowly woman who needs 'headship' from a believing mate, he should attend the hearing. However, the wording suggests that the husband is there to help 'discipline' her rather than support her.

Not so if you are a man with a wife. The rules are different depending on the type of genital equipment you were born with.

5

Where can I find an online copy of 'Babylon the Great' book published 1963?

by Esse quam videri in

pdf anywhere?

thanks for your help.

OrphanCrow

Not a pdf, but an online copy can be found here:

http://www.strictlygenteel.co.uk/babylon/babylontitles.html

*to add:

pdf available here.

37

Apostasy Trial - Part 2 - Satan is Using Google

by berrygerry in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=373zbncuuoq

OrphanCrow

steve2: Surely, though, there is provision for the individual who faces a hearing to have a support person present if he so chooses so that another 'witness' is on hand.

Actually, Steve, there isn't a provision such as you propose even though it would seem to be reasonable.

From pg 90 in Shepherd the Flock (secret elders' manual):

2..........The accused should be given opportunity
to respond to the testimony. If he wishes to present
witnesses to establish his innocence, the judicial
committee should allow them to give their testimony.

3. Hear only those witnesses who have relevant
testimony regarding the alleged wrongdoing.
Those who intend to testify only about the character
of the accused should not be allowed to do so. The
witnesses should not hear details and testimony of
other witnesses. Observers should not be present for
moral support. Recording devices should not be
allowed.

(highlighting mine)