Posts by OrphanCrow

111

Conti Appeal Preview - Oral Argument Jan 14

by Chaserious in

with hopefully a good deal of interest here in the conti appeal tomorrow (or later today, depending on where you are), i thought that on my ride home from work tonight i'd preview what to expect and what i think the key issues are for any who are interested.

i have had a busy few weeks and haven't had time to read everything, but i had some time to look at the appeal briefs during my work commute the past couple days.

it'll be interesting to see what develops out of the network news coverage of this case.

OrphanCrow

Your point seems to be that the elders were well-intentioned rubes who didn't realize that their actions would put any children in danger.

In a court of law, ignorance does not equal innocence.

24

Jehovah's Witnesses recover best from surgery, despite refusing blood.

by nicolaou in

that's' the headline of an article in the sydney morning herald.

my jw family are sharing it with glee on facebook right now.

here's the link; .

OrphanCrow

Of course the JWS jump on this bit of biased information thinking Aha we don't need BTs after all, its all a needless scam, are no blood doctrine was right all along, thank you Jehovah.

Yes, it would be like the Amish using traffic fatalities as justification for riding in a horse and buggy instead of a car.

24

Jehovah's Witnesses recover best from surgery, despite refusing blood.

by nicolaou in

that's' the headline of an article in the sydney morning herald.

my jw family are sharing it with glee on facebook right now.

here's the link; .

OrphanCrow

BTs have saved millions of lives since its inception as a medical procedure.

Exactly. The WTS promotes its flawed blood doctrine as though abstaining from blood is a good thing when it is not. The WTS, in their promotion of bloodless programs, emphasizes the negative aspects of blood transfusions and ignores the life saving properties of blood transfusions.

Blood transfusions saves lives.

Blood transfusions saved my life.

24

Jehovah's Witnesses recover best from surgery, despite refusing blood.

by nicolaou in

that's' the headline of an article in the sydney morning herald.

my jw family are sharing it with glee on facebook right now.

here's the link; .

OrphanCrow

I would hope that whenever possible, all possible preparations are diligently carried out for all patients who anticipate surgery so that blood isn't necessary. When it is given as a bandaid for unskilled surgery, then you will have more issues.

'Bloodless surgery' is not as simple as just going in for surgery and not receiving blood. The process of undergoing 'bloodless' surgery involves different equipment and different procedures than 'ordinary' surgery. In a 'normal' surgical procedure, your blood isn't drained out of you first, your blood isn't taken outside of your body , washed, and then transfused back into you. In normal surgery, you get to keep your blood inside your body while it is happening - in bloodless procedures, you don't. One of the goals of bloodless medicine is to keep the patient alive as long as possible without blood in their bodies.

About Shannon Farmer et al...

Farmer has never declared a conflict of interest during his involvement in blood management programs. Neither did Axel Hoffman or the many other JWs involved in bloodless management programs.

http://traq.blogspot.ca/2014_06_01_archive.html

Australia's National Blood Authority (NBA), a well respected government organization that does much valuable work, appointed Shannon Farmer, a Jehovah's Witness, as the key consumer representative on a government panel developing new transfusion guidelines for Australia's hospitals. Nil inappropriate about that except Mr. Farmer didn't declare
Formally, or otherwise it seems, that he was a Jehovah's Witness.
His consultancy work since 2007 to an Austrian business involved in commercial tendering for patient blood management projects around the world.
Receiving fees for consulting and lecturing from multinational pharmaceutical companies,e.g., J and J.
When informed, the NBA said it would review the details. Whether or not possible conflicting interests are of "sufficient conflict" is a moot point.
Fact is they were not declared and at the time of his appointment Farmer was described as "consumer" and "independent consumer advocate". An NBA spokesperson is quoted as saying, "The NBA believes any potential conflict of interest, real or perceived, should be declared."
He's an Adjunct Research Fellow, School of Surgery, at the University of Western Australia, where he's listed as an author on multi-authored papers about blood.
LinkedIn shows he's an Adjunct Senior Research Fellow Centre for Population Health Research, Curtin University.
He's lectured extensively on bloodless surgery and blood conservation.
He's apparently an expert on transfusion medicine.

And none of the above profiles even hint that he's consulted for years to Austria's 'Medicine and Economics' business involved in commercial patient blood management projects globally.
How can you not know that someone you appoint to panels developing national blood transfusion guidelines is a member of a religion that forbids transfusion and earns big bucks implementing blood management programs internationally? How can you say, when information comes to light, 'These aren't sufficient conflicts'?
Isn't this equivalent to someone being appointed to a government panel on the future of private laboratories in Alberta (Canada, UK, you name it)
Who is a member of a political party whose policies are pro-private medicine (pro-private everything)?
Who consults for (perhaps partially owns) a private laboratory consortium bidding for government contracts?
So far as I can tell Shannon Farmer is not a physician nor a PhD researcher, yet:
Yet it's hard to discover which degrees he has, where he went to school, or any of the normal qualifications of someone who's an author, lecturer, and expert on TM, with university appointments.

Not only is Australia's blood management program spearheaded by prominent JWs, almost all of those involved in bloodless surgery clinics in USA are JWs.

Submitting to 'bloodless' surgical procedures is sort of like going to an abortion clinic run by the pope and managed by prominent Catholics.

111

Conti Appeal Preview - Oral Argument Jan 14

by Chaserious in

with hopefully a good deal of interest here in the conti appeal tomorrow (or later today, depending on where you are), i thought that on my ride home from work tonight i'd preview what to expect and what i think the key issues are for any who are interested.

i have had a busy few weeks and haven't had time to read everything, but i had some time to look at the appeal briefs during my work commute the past couple days.

it'll be interesting to see what develops out of the network news coverage of this case.

OrphanCrow

@Nitty-Gritty:

(I apologize if this post is off-topic - I want to address the comment you made about the WTS' advice given to parents)

What I find odd, is that rarely do these articles address the obvious first line of defense: the dynamics between a (good) parent and a child, (mutual trust and open communication) and the education of the child as to “bad touch” “good touch” (even from parents), etc. In my opinion the various Awake articles and other WT publications have produced excellent advice as to this first line of defense. Just my observation…..

"Excellent advice?" I think the Watchtower 'advice' avoids the elephant in the room. What happens when the abuser is the parent, which is often the case in closed communities that practice extreme sexual prohibitions?

Here are some observations (taken from personal stories on the Silent Lambs website) to add to your 'observation', Nitty-Gritty.

I was sexually abused by my father who was a witness from the time I was a toddler up until I was about 9 or 10 years old.

And then, when I was about eight years old, my father started coming into our room, the kids’ room, late at night after he’d got home from work and my mother was sleeping with the TV on. ...

My dad took me into the shower with him when I was only eight or nine years old and he made me do crazy things.
And I was held down and raped by my father, the man of God, the head of the family who was supposed to protect me and love me and be good to me, on several occasions. It was a nightmare.
I found out that my father, the service overseer, had molested my sister (half-sister) many years ago.
my poor older sister was subject to sexual abuse from my father
I, like so many others was abused by my step-father (who was also an elder in our congregation).
I was sexually abused by my father when I was young. .. My father has since become a well-respected Elder who is often featured at the District Convention and directs the featured Drama.
My mother, who was an extreme alcoholic, sexually abused at least one of my brothers, and beat them severely... My mother, who is now 84, is still a witness. She was spoken to once about sexual abuse and she categorically denied it
As a child my father was a pervert. He never actually touched me but he exposed himself to me and my physical sisters on a regular basis as well as talked and behaved in a sexually perverted way around us.
I also found out that another uncle's wife was abused from the time she was about 6 until she was engaged by her father, an elder.
When I was a child I was molested by several family members who are Jehovah's Witnesses (My uncle, brother, and father.)
My abuse memories start around 3 when my father came home one night drunk.
on many Sundays after going to the "meetings" my stepfather would molest me that very same day telling me this was to show my Love to not only my father...but the Heavenly father (Jehovah).....
I was molested by my stepfather at age 11,

When I finally got the strength to go to the elders they called me and my sisters liars. You see my dad was loved deeply and no one wanted to accept what we were saying about such a great man.
My daughter was molested by her baptized stepfather when she was eight.
I was not molested by an elder or any member from the congregation, but I was molested by my step father who is a Jehovah Witness.
I had a good friend who was repeatedly molested by her father (an elder) and her brother.
My father was the congregation overseer in 1959 when I was violently raped by him and my grandfather.
I was in the "organization" for 31 years and was molested by 2 different elders (one was my father).
I was abused by my "servant" father when I was a teenager.
... a highly respected elder in our Kingdom Hall was involved in sexually molesting several young girls, including his own daughter.

The 'excellent advice' given by the Watchtower Society is not as 'excellent' as you may believe - in fact, it may very well create yet another situation for abusive parents to further abuse children.

90

Kingdom Consolidation and Sales are coming – Reliable Source

by thedepressedsoul in

i heard form a reliable source that a kingdom hall consolidation is going to be happening in the us.

currently they are looking at every kingdom hall to see if they could and should sell it.

any kingdom hall that has not been updated and is in a bad location (long driveway, not in a visible location etc...) will be sold.

OrphanCrow

Any Kingdom Hall that has not been updated and is in a bad location (long driveway, not in a visible location etc…) will be sold.

.

The Witnesses in those halls will asked to go to the halls chosen to not be sold to give a more “full” look.

Underlying the profit making motive from real estate flipping, is marketing. Getting rid of bad locations and relocating to more visible sites, and giving a 'full' look at meetings, goes hand in hand with the public cart witnessing and increasing online visibility.

Image making and marketing to camouflage the decline in membership. It is all about looking good in the public eye.

10

Just returned from South America

by StarTrekAngel in

i just came back from visiting family in south america (will keep the name of the country out for now) and i was shocked by the amount of jws i saw on the street.

keep in mind that most countries in sa have been under military rule until the early 80s, with the general fear and mindset sticking around until the late 90s, even when the military was gone and democracy re established.

jw were not around when i lived there.

OrphanCrow

i "see" them more now than ever, but its largely due to the public cart witnessing push, not an actual increase in dubbies. They scout out busy areas to post up in and therefore catch your attention... Just a possible explanitation

.

I live in the UK and JWs are popping up all over the place with their street displays, usually in big towns. This is a clever way to promote their organization. Door knocking only contacts one person at a time and that person may not be interested.

The actual conversion rate versus hours invested in door-to-door ministry is pathetically small. The cart witnessing is a corporate shift that makes use of resources. It doesn't matter about converts so much - it is all about increased visibility. It goes along with the rebranding. And the upcoming sell-off of Kingdom Halls that aren't in visible locations.

I have a friend that just returned from Mexico City. She said that the JW cart witnessing in public areas is very prevalent - "...they are crawling all over the place!"

8

What would happen if both parents of a baptised child were to be disfellowshipped?

by Esse quam videri in

we hear of children as young as eight being baptized.

the governing body have tried making twelve year olds feel guilty about not being baptized.

being as the society has encouraged [pushed] young ones to be baptized, it apparently has taken a 'keen interest' in the spiritual health and eternal welfare of the child.

OrphanCrow

Yeah, Vidiot, I was a handful when I was young. ;) People tell me I still am at times.

That day, though, was one of the first times I was able to speak up for myself - there was nobody else there to do it for me. I was terrified. But, I was still angry from the time I was pulled, the year before, all alone, into The Room, at 12 years of age, to be told by an elder that my skirt was too short. At 12, I "was "distracting the brothers on the stage."

I was a born-in and I don't remember ever liking the Kingdom Hall or field service. The only good times I had was when I was able to help my dad out in the cafeteria during circuit assemblies. I plotted my escape for years and was secretly thrilled when Mom was kicked out. It took another year before I could slam the door on the Kingdom Hall forever.

I feel I should qualify my earlier statement about 'them' never leaving a previous attendee alone. They do sometimes. My Dad had been a very active, baptized, Ministerial Servant (or whatever they called it way back then - 'elder' in today's language). He was much in demand as the Sunday speaker in the outlying small congregations in our rural area. He was in charge of the cafeteria, and later, the kitchen during Circuit Assemblies. He just stopped going to meetings around the time Mom was given the boot.

I asked my Dad if he ever got a visit or any sort of contact from the JWs after he left and later started living common-in-law. He said "no", never a single contact. Never disciplined, never disfellowshipped, even though he never tried to hide his lifestyle.

And by the way, even at 80 years of age a few years ago, he stood up at his birthday party, took a deep breath, and let loose with a stupendous thank you speech - just like the good old days. Hand gestures and everything. He did the same at my daughter's wedding. He took the microphone from the MC, unannounced and spontaneously, and cut into his 'public speaking voice'. The whole crowd was impressed. My Dad still 'has it'. Lol!

39

NEW LIGHT FROM SLO CIRCUIT OVERSEER "Warning, Blood on Doorposts", "The Couple who Missed One Meeting Died With Their Kids, Don't Miss Any!

by Trailer Park Pioneer in

sorry, i messed up before i could put the right title on this new light from our circuit overseer, his visit show's a great desperation in the organization's mindset, adding more anxiety and guilt to jws who already feel they don't measure up!.

hi, i attended the circuit overseers visit and got really angry because our c.o.

gave information coming from the governing body's chief apologists regarding "meeting attendance" and "the couple who missed one meeting and lost their entire family because they did not get the "411" when armageddon was coming!

OrphanCrow

blood was put on the doorposts

The WTS has lots of blood on their doorpost - 70 years of JWs' blood. The ones who died refusing blood transfusions.

8

What would happen if both parents of a baptised child were to be disfellowshipped?

by Esse quam videri in

we hear of children as young as eight being baptized.

the governing body have tried making twelve year olds feel guilty about not being baptized.

being as the society has encouraged [pushed] young ones to be baptized, it apparently has taken a 'keen interest' in the spiritual health and eternal welfare of the child.

OrphanCrow

Esse, I will relate to you my personal experience with a situation similar to the one you describe. However, because it is my own experience, it may be somewhat outdated. And I apologize for the length - I can be a bit long winded.

This event happened in 1971, a couple years after Franz had made his !969 summer assembly announcement about 1974 marking the 'end of the Gentile times' - I attended the Vancouver Assembly in 69 when I was 12 years old - and so began the ugly times. My mother was disfellowshipped the following year for 'unChristanlike behaviour'. And my father, a Ministerial Servant, who had attended Toronto's Kingdom Ministry School, became inactive and my parents were sort of separated.

I was forced, by both my parents, to continue attending meetings and going out in field service with my older brother, who was being groomed for elder status, and my older sister. This continued for about a year. I was never baptized. And I hated it the whole time. I absolutely despised everything about the Kingdom Hall and the religion.

At the age of 13, I got my chance and put in my heels ( a long story that involves a go-cart and a broken ankle) and refused to go back to meetings. About two months into my rebellion, I received a visit from the two top guys in the congregation. They had to have watched the house and timed their visit when they knew I was home alone. My mother worked. Keep in mind, I was only 13 - a young minor girl.

They came in the house, sat down and promptly asked me why I wasn't at meetings, read some Bible scriptures to me, and asked me "if I wasn't worried about Armageddon coming Real Soon?".

I was very scared, but also pretty angry by this time, but the anger helped me get over my fear and this is what I said to them:

"Well, correct me if I am wrong, but, what you teach at the Kingdom Hall about Armageddon is that, when it comes, all the babies and children of the people who are bad and turned away from Jehovah will be judged on their parent's actions, right?"

Of course they nodded, pleased that i had learned my lessons so well. And then I said:

"Well then, I don't see the point of me attending meetings, because, if Armageddon could come tomorrow like you say, then I won't be saved anyways, so it would be a waste of time for me to go back to the Kingdom Hall. Because my Dad doesn't go to meetings anymore and you guys kicked out my Mom for working in the bar. And I am not baptized. So you will have to leave and don't bother coming back."

And that is almost word for word what I said. Even though it was so many years ago (my gawd - way too long ago!), it was pretty much the most important moment in my life so I remember it really well.

I showed them the door and told them not to bother coming back - I was scared and shaking. I phoned my Mom at work. She phoned them and tore a strip off them both for coming in the house when she wasn't home. She was pissed.

Over the years, I have been targeted off and on by local JWs who know me. However, during the past few years, most of those back in my home country give me wide berth when they see me. We have had several encounters that have not ended well and I am well known as an outspoken critic of the Watchtower Society. In spite of that, there are a few JWs that I have a nod and smile relationship with.

My mother has remained disfellowshipped for the past 45 years but she is still on the call list for visits from the local congregation. She is in her 80s and will get the obligatory visit from a local elder and the CO when he is in town. They read her a scripture or two and ask her if she wants to come back to the fold. She says no and they leave. And return the next time the CO comes to town.

And by the way, she was one of the JW children baptized right at the beginning of WW2. The Canadian WTS sent men around to rural Canada to do a sweep of baptisms, especially children, and she was baptized at 6 years of age, in 1939. And then disfellowshipped years later, when she was in her 30s.

So, in answer to your query about if 'They' ever give up, I can only answer from my own experience and, unfortunately - no.

Orphan Crow