Check to see if you are signed to your account on those devices.
OrphanCrow
JoinedPosts by OrphanCrow
-
-
-
-
35
Where did Jesus get the Idea of an After-life in Heaven?
by John Aquila inthe ancient jews did not believe in an after-life as far as i can tell, correct me if i'm wrong.
the watchtower says yes.
they say all the prophets believed in a paradise earth..
-
-
OrphanCrow
The idea of a heaven/hell was likely a Zoroastrian influence from Persia.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/zoroastr.htm
The religion was founded by Zarathushtra in Persia -- modern-day Iran. It may have been the world's first monotheistic faith. It was once the religion of the Persian empire, but has since been reduced in numbers to fewer than 200,000 today. With the exception of religious conservatives, most religious historians believe the the Jewish, Christian and Muslim beliefs concerning God and Satan, the soul, heaven and hell, the virgin birth of the savior, the slaughter of the innocents, resurrection, the final judgment, etc. were all derived from Zoroastrianism.
-
47
What are you up to this summer?
by Xanthippe ini really enjoy hearing about other people's lives.
feeling a little lonely this evening so please tell me if you have plans for the summer months.
i may go to some outdoor theatre with my daughter who's home from uni; with a picnic and a bottle of wine.
-
-
OrphanCrow
Packing. I am moving in 3 weeks. Again. But only a few blocks away - down three flights of stairs here and then up three flights of stairs in my next home. I am not sure how many times I have moved in my life up to now...I think this is #47 or #48...I've lost track. At least the last half dozen moves I have only had myself to move - my kids are grown up and gone and I also have given up on hauling deadwood around anymore. ;)
Summer is a good time to move. Far better than three foot high snowbanks and 30 below weather with a blizzard blowing in. I hope it isn't too hot moving day, or thunderstorms. I am praying to the moving gods for good weather and good legs that day. A bag of green will help.
Today I finished an ugly, ugly demo job in my friend's bathroom. She is doing a reno in her bathroom - she wants a Morracan themed bathroom and has purchased some pretty expensive material including having an antique claw foot tub refinished for it. Her floor choice was super expensive floor tile ordered in from Italy and accented with glass mosaic insets and done on a diagonal lay and with a heatpad underneath.
She hired a couple of f**tards to do the whole bath reno and they assured her that they knew how to install floor tile. They "finished" the floor 4 days ago. I went to see it. It was a mess. A mess beyond description. Nothing was done right. Nothing. I can't even get into how bad it was. Unbelievable. The worst I have ever seen.
I will share something personal about myself. I am an experienced flooring installer. Several years ago I trained under and worked full time with a man who had 20 years experience. I was teaching at the university part time and needed another job. So...I became the only woman flooring installer in the city - we did everything from large commercial jobs to high end residential and everything on down from there - even slum housing where you had to get the needles shoveled out of the basements before you could start.
I did it for five years - five tough grueling years. My gawd, when I think of what I put my body through. On some jobs, I would take wrist wraps with steel bars in them and tape them on my arms with electrician tape before staring for the day. My hands were always bandaged and I have many knife scars and such to show off. It was bastard hard work.
It has been ten years since I quit installing flooring except for a few times that i did some flooring for TV shows and movies at the film studios. That was the last I did any. I don't want to do it anymore. I am too old for that shit.
But this is my friend. So, the past three days I have been smashing out hundreds of dollars worth of ceramic tile, and swearing. And sweating. And hurting. Damn tiles are like glass when they break. Cut fingers. But I am finished tearing out. The floor is down to the nuts again. Now I wait for the drywaller to fix the walls where I had to tear off the ceramic base.
Next- installing new tiles. Damn. Not really looking forward to this. My partner and I didn't do much in ceramic work - just a little bit during the last year we worked together. Eek!! I need to do a bit of research here and maybe a little prayer to my old partner - he passed away a couple months ago...maybe he will whisper in my ear what to do! But, as a backup, I have a hotline set up with one of the flooring distributors in town, they will walk me through any problems I may have. I went and talked to them and they still remember me. Nice guys.
Yup. That is my summer so far. Thanks for asking. Hope everyone else is having at at least as much fun as I am. I will buy the beer for anyone who wants to help me move.... :)
-
-
-
OrphanCrow
Witness My Fury: Hitler had a strange blonde fetish for a black haired dude me thinks
Artists depicting the Christ child as blonde is not unusual. There are many paintings that do so - the Christ child was often painted with blonde hair - Hitler's painting was only following an established tradition.
Giovanni: Madonna With Doves:
(Mary's robe is blue in the actual painting)
Giovanni: Angel With Madonna
Xanthippie: It's traditional to paint the madonna's dress in blue FMF.
Historically, blue was a rare and expensive pigment and, unlike other colors readily available for the artists' palette, blue was reserved for royalty or people of wealth. Therefore, blue pigment came to be associated with the sacred.
I am curious as well as to why the OP wants to know what other people know about this painting. Obviously, the OP had a purpose for posting it but is reluctant to reveal what that purpose is.
-
25
So much "growth"! JW Land double sided coin
by thedepressedsoul ini'm finding it more and more funny how every wt article for the public or congregation, including jw broadcast talks about all this "growth" and how fast jehovha's organization is speeding up!
yet everything behind closed doors, insider information, elder letters and sales paint a very different picture.
i have news for you gb members!
-
-
OrphanCrow
Listener: I'd rather be depressed and knowledgeable then blissfully unaware. So for that thanks guys.
Me too.
Depression occurs when we feel helpless and unable to do something about it. That is why I talk about it - speaking is doing something. At least it is a start.
problemaddict2: Orphan crow,
So I would LOVE to know more about how they are getting paid from goverments for literacy aids. Can you please help me out here or point me to a thread where you have your research.
You are an awesome member of this group. Research at this level takes a particular mind. No wonder the crows liked you so much.And I like crows. They are amazing creatures. They pass their knowledge down through generations and they were here long before we were.
Barbara posted a thread a while back about WT literature being used in the school system in the Philippines:
I am pretty sure I have something, somewhere on one of my other computers, that confirms that the WT is involved in supplying books for literacy in the Philippines and receiving funding for it, but I can't find it right now. However, it is also possible that the supply of books to schools is part of the WTS' "charitable works" which, of course, translates into tax free status. (Damn...I wish my other computer wasn't already packed....I am in the middle of a move.)
This article also discusses the WTS' involvement in literacy:
http://jehovahswitnessreport.com/blog/education-for-children-should-empower-not-indoctrinate
But, in that article, the author says this:
These goals were transformed into an action plan within the Philippines that is currently being rolled out at a national and local level using a range of service providers.
Within this mix of providers and with the surprising support of the University of the Philippines-Diliman, is the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of the Philippines Inc.
It is reported by the INQUIRER.NET, that the Watchtower Society have translated some children’s religious materials into the Bicol language and provided some free books. The article states “that the aim is to help children understand moral values better.” It is unclear from the report whether the Watchtower Society has received any money for this work or for the books. The translators are volunteers.A country that has a high representation of Jehovah's Witnesses is Zambia, Africa. A paper submitted for a Masters degree at the University of Zambia, 2013, discusses literacy and the Jehovah's Witnesses role in education.
AN EVALUATION OF THE LITERACY PROGRAMME OFFERED BYTHE CHURCH: A CASE OF SELECTED
JEHOVAH'S WITNESS CONGREGATIONS IN CHONGWE DISTRICT IN ZAMBIA
The author doesn't self identify as a JW, but I believe that it was written by a JW - the language is WT language in many places, and in the acknowledgements at the beginning of the paper, the student says this:
Firstly, I would like to pass my deep and sincere debt of gratitude to my academic supervisor Dr
Banda Dennis for his continuous and constructive corrections. His valuable suggestions and
generous guidance enriched this study throughout every stage. Jehovah God will bless and
reward him.The paper is lengthy and identifies the significance of the study as this:
It is hoped that the findings of the study may urge the Ministry of Education (MoE) to
acknowledge the work done by Jehovah‟s Witnesses and extend funding and monitoring
activities to such literacy programmes. The findings may also be beneficial to the Jehovah‟s
Witnesses in the sense that they may start getting the recognition and help that they were not
getting from the government, and it may also be useful in helping them to reflect on their role in
the provision of adult literacy programme and decide on how best they can improve.I would like to do some more investigation into how the WTS is working with organizations like UNESCO, and how and where they receive benefit and/or funding to do so, but I am afraid I get distracted by other issues like blood and stuff like that. There are some papers published concerning the WTS and literacy that are written by "outside" academics that are very interesting.
-
90
Kingdom Consolidation and Sales are coming – Reliable Source
by thedepressedsoul ini heard form a reliable source that a kingdom hall consolidation is going to be happening in the us.
currently they are looking at every kingdom hall to see if they could and should sell it.
any kingdom hall that has not been updated and is in a bad location (long driveway, not in a visible location etc...) will be sold.
-
-
OrphanCrow
stan: maybe the watchtower society will be up for sale--? now theres a thought.
The WTS has always been up for sale.
They will bend over and prostitute themselves for anybody that will buy them. If you have enough money in hand, the WTS is yours.
-
25
So much "growth"! JW Land double sided coin
by thedepressedsoul ini'm finding it more and more funny how every wt article for the public or congregation, including jw broadcast talks about all this "growth" and how fast jehovha's organization is speeding up!
yet everything behind closed doors, insider information, elder letters and sales paint a very different picture.
i have news for you gb members!
-
-
OrphanCrow
The Listener: OrphanCrow - you depress me sometimes.
I am truly sorry. Would you rather I not say anything? Would you rather not know?
I understand how this is depressing - you have no idea how disturbing this is to me and how depressed I have been at times when I have found out what the WTS is up to behind the scenes. It would be so much easier if we were actually dealing with just a wacky religion instead of a global, organized network of people who perceive that their elitism allows them to do whatever they like with no regard for the human life toll that they are responsible for.
Depressing? You have no idea. Or, maybe you do...I certainly do. I apologize again...but I don't know how to not say the things I do. If I kept my mouth shut, I would cease to exist, I wouldn't be real. Voice is all we really have - the WTS is responsible for establishing freedom of speech for them - it applies to me too. Thank gawd I live in a country that upholds those standards. Without that, the anger I feel towards the WTS would internalize and become unmanageable.
Listener, if we lived close to each other, maybe we could just go and get drunk together once in a while so we could forget about it for a short period of time. Or better yet, smoke a bowl - that would at least make us happy for a bit. ;)
-
25
So much "growth"! JW Land double sided coin
by thedepressedsoul ini'm finding it more and more funny how every wt article for the public or congregation, including jw broadcast talks about all this "growth" and how fast jehovha's organization is speeding up!
yet everything behind closed doors, insider information, elder letters and sales paint a very different picture.
i have news for you gb members!
-
-
OrphanCrow
The WTS is growing. In third world countries and developing countries. I don't think they are at all concerned about a lack of growth in developed countries. In fact, I think they want to trim the numbers in the countries where the "apostate problem"has become unmanageable. Smaller groups are easier to handle. Their recent makeover to an internet religion and their revival of public witnessing gives the perception that they are an active and growing religion in developed countries.
The lower income levels in third world countries aren't a problem for the WTS - it is actually an asset. The WTS has been successful in grooming those countries for government contracts to supply "literacy aids" and they have a ripe market for distribution of their religious propaganda under the guise of educational tools. Not to mention how valuable certain populations are for the WTS' "bloodless medicine" investments. There is a larger demand for bloodless medicine in 3rd world and developing countries as well as easier hoops to jump through to test "bloodless" products and procedures on their members.
-
-
-
OrphanCrow
Rebel: Even when you try to find legitimate websites explaining the meaning, all you get is "modesty".
It does strike me as a symbol of subservience and silence. It would be interesting to confirm this information from a legit source.The original meaning of the burqua wasn't "modesty" per se. I apologize that I don't have references for what I am about to say - it has been far too long ago that I researched this and I no longer have the textual references to offer you...but, if you don't mind me just "spouting" off...
In primitive times, women were feared by men because of their perceived connection to the divine that men lacked. Women were seen as having a special connection to god because of their ability to "make life" - they could have babies and men couldn't which led to women being seen as more spiritually powerful than men.
The other thing was that "hair" and/or "head" was seen as the way that people could communicate with "god/divine". Therefore, when men wanted to communicate with god, they superstitiously believed that if a woman was present, with her head uncovered, that she would be able to over-ride their attempts to connect with the divine. So, the men, in order to assert their own power, required that women cover their head so that they wouldn't interfere with that divine communication. And women complied - out of respect for the men - the act acknowledged that women had more spiritual power than men did.
It has been time and men's personal fears that have led to how culture views the head covering (or burqa) today - the sexual connotations have only evolved through the patriarchal fear of male sexuality, not female sexuality. Men are acting out their fear of the sexual power of women whereas the original meaning has to do with spiritual power.
In today's Aboriginal cultures, the ones who follow the traditional way, this concept can be seen in the observance of traditional ceremonies. A women who is on her "moon time" is required to step back and not engage in the ritual of smudging and other ritualistic behaviors. This is not seen as a subservient act that puts down women, but rather an act that acknowledges the power of women. The Aboriginals do this as an act of respect for women - that women are the most like the Creator when they are menstruating, not that they are "less than" men, but rather, "more than" men.
Today's association of sexuality - that women are sex objects and must cover themselves up - is a view that has culturally evolved from men's desires and fears. It no longer holds the original purpose of acknowledging the divine connection that women have, that men lack.
-
5
Interview by Priest George Maximov with XJW Artem Grigoryan who was a volunteer at the Russian "Bethel" for 4.5 years. Here's what he said:
by AndersonsInfo intop of formhttp://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/78966.htm.
jehovahs witnesses do not need a search for the truth.
artem grigoryan.
-
-
OrphanCrow
Thank you for posting this, Barbara. I found it very interesting. Artem had a succinct way of speaking and his description of how conversion into the Jehovah's Witnesses happens is good:
Grigoryan:......... I thought about it a lot, trying to analyze my ways and the ways of my family and people I knew, both Jehovah’s Witnesses and those who quit. In most cases, it is the same scenario: people fall in love with the organization and its members. The belief system is indeed secondary. It is well absorbed by the mind of the person who is already in love with the organization. When a person falls in love, he or she is surrounded by enormous attention and care. Sometimes they can even provide financial support or help find employment. The person falls in love and then he or she is ready to embrace various ideas. That is when a very delicate process of indoctrination begins. It is a training course based on a special handbook. The course is a major topic-based breakdown of the Bible. Naturally, it contains very denominational interpretation that is at times quite strange, far-fetched and artificial, but it all is easy to absorb because the person is already in love with the organization.
Father George: However, such attention cannot be shown for an extended period and cannot be as intense as when the person initially joined?
A. Grigoryan: Of course. After a while this attention subsides. Once a person receives the “baptism” and becomes a full-fledged member of the organization, it is now this person’s turn to show the same attention to newcomers as was initially extended to him or her. This is how this person becomes a part of this huge mechanism.
That is a really important point that he makes - that people "fall in love" with the organization first and adopt the doctrines later - because that explains why logical arguments usually fail to convince them to leave:
......when I was helping people to quit their organizations and follow the church-based way of life, I saw many times that none of the intellectual arguments worked.
Often people who argue with sectarians wonder why their arguments fail. We provide convincing theological, exegetic, historical and simply logical arguments, but they don’t work. This doesn’t work because these people were not originally convinced by arguments, and that is why the arguments cannot convince them otherwise. They were convinced by something else. That is why I think that we first need to simply show such people Christian life first and discuss conceptual ideas later.The other thing that Artem spoke about that was pretty interesting was the books he had access to at the Russian Bethel:
....while working in the Administrative Center, I had access to a very interesting library that had a section dedicated to various religions. Nobody was interested in it, except for the translators who worked with various materials and needed to know the terminology. That section had many very interesting books by Orthodox authors of early 20th century. For example, there were books by N.N. Glubovsky and various professors of Kiev, Kazan and Moscow Ecclesiastical Academies. There were also three volumes of the Explanatory Bible by A.P. Lopukhin. I saw serious Orthodox literature for the first time in my life. I was amazed, because, as you can imagine, people in all such pseudo-Christian organizations have a very low opinion of Orthodox faith and theology.
And...Raymond Franz's Crisis of Conscience:
I broke what is probably the most important taboo of any authoritarian system—the taboo on reading information provided by former members of the organization. I read this book in fear—Can you imagine, being at the very heart of the organization and reading the book whose name Jehovah’s Witnesses are not even allowed to mention. I closed the door, lowered the blinds and read.
That's pretty cool - to read Ray's book right inside Russia's Bethel!
Good interview. Thanks again, Barbara, I enjoyed reading it.