Yikes! Nothing like post hijackers.
Aqua seed the Greeks had an ancient and interesting theology. Great temples. Why not go on a tangent about them? Why not discuss the meaning of Santa Claus and the real number of buttons on his coat?
Balaamsass2
JoinedPosts by Balaamsass2
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62
Did the Fred Franz style of writing cease after he died?
by SydBarrett ini was completely out by 1991 and 1989 would have been the last time i had to attend regularly.
that over the top franz writing style was still there in the 1980's although i've heard he wasn't actually doing much writing by then.
but his style was definitely picked up and imitated for many years beyond its wacky, outlandish peak of the the 50's - 70's.
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37
1975 !
by Sea Breeze inhow many of you here remember 1975?
i hope the newer generations never forget.the true believers got shamed for it.
those who were hedging their bets, fared much better.
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Balaamsass2
Within a few years Watchtower was talking about "Some well meanings friends ran ahead". BS...all the hype came directly from Brooklyn HQ, By Fred Franz and the "Governing Body 1.0". Remember they all voted to promote Fred Franz to President soon after the fiasco when Knorr died.
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1975 !
by Sea Breeze inhow many of you here remember 1975?
i hope the newer generations never forget.the true believers got shamed for it.
those who were hedging their bets, fared much better.
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Balaamsass2
After the fall in 1975 Watchtower began hedging their bets. The visiting COs began talking about how long was Adam alone in Eden? "Long enough to name ALL the animals in Eden AND become lonely. Some claimed a perfect man would have perfect self control and wouldn't get lonely or horney for many years. Others claimed a perfect man could name all the animals, get lonely, and horney in months. So Watchtower kept the BIG LIE going for months. Soon a number of talks and articles came out about "not serving with a date in mind", and the "faithful of old" being faithful their entire lives. etc etc.
Rather than being punished Fred Franz was promoted when Knorr died
By 1978 a number of local Elders and pioneers stepped down, moved, or quit. Lots of people shut up had kids, started businesses, got married, built homes, got on with life and whatever they had put off for the past 6 years or so. To point out Watchtowers lies was to be labeled an apostate and lose all your friends, customers and family. If you knew what was good for you, you pretended it didn't happen.
Why shut up and "mind to your own knitting?" It works. How many spoke out about the KKK and Jim Crow laws in the American South in the 1940s-1950s? How many spoke out about Hitler in the 1930s? Social pressure and self preservation are strong motivators.
Remember, it is a cult.
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37
1975 !
by Sea Breeze inhow many of you here remember 1975?
i hope the newer generations never forget.the true believers got shamed for it.
those who were hedging their bets, fared much better.
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Balaamsass2
I was bedside when mom died in pain with regrets a dozen years ago. Her dying words after 75 years as a JW ..."I thought I would happily skip into the new system young, with all my family". All I could do was say: I know..and squeeze her hand.
The remainder of all her JW family and friends died disappointed, sick and old, a few years ago. No one got to pet a lyon in the Alps....and all were too broke from serving Watchtower to afford to even visit the Alps.
Don't repeat their mistake.
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1975 !
by Sea Breeze inhow many of you here remember 1975?
i hope the newer generations never forget.the true believers got shamed for it.
those who were hedging their bets, fared much better.
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Balaamsass2
Yes Rivergang. Disagreeing with Watchtower(or following them) didn't go well then or now.
Some extended family sold everything to move to a small Midwest town. They were not welcome by JWs or townspeople. They left a few years later broke$$ and broken.
I remember a nice sister who was pregnant in 1973. An Elder was giving a part on the closeness of the end and "Woe to the pregnant woman" and how ignoring the END showed a lack of faith and may result in losing a child during Armageddon! That poor sister started crying and sobbing got up and ran to the back room. Poor thing. (PS that baby is a middle aged man now).
Fred Franz came up with the bogus theology...and when proved wrong, was promoted!!
It's a CULT.
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62
Did the Fred Franz style of writing cease after he died?
by SydBarrett ini was completely out by 1991 and 1989 would have been the last time i had to attend regularly.
that over the top franz writing style was still there in the 1980's although i've heard he wasn't actually doing much writing by then.
but his style was definitely picked up and imitated for many years beyond its wacky, outlandish peak of the the 50's - 70's.
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Balaamsass2
:) How did a question about Fred Franz, Watchtowers' pretend Greek Scholar and 1st year college drop out, become a discussion about the Catholic Church???
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Franz
A great thread from 20 years ago. : https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/87785/cult-four-just-imperfect-men
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37
1975 !
by Sea Breeze inhow many of you here remember 1975?
i hope the newer generations never forget.the true believers got shamed for it.
those who were hedging their bets, fared much better.
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Balaamsass2
It wasn't a weak suggestion. JWs in my town who remodeled homes, built new homes, started apprenticeships, applied for realtor's licenses, or had children, were admonished from the platform for "Playing shuffleboard on a sinking Titanic!" I had relatives who sold homes, quit jobs, and moved to where the need was great. (they suffered greatly later).
My mom racked up credit card debt expecting "people throwing their money in the street" and the destruction of the credit card companies at Armageddon.
I quit a great Silicon Valley job, and started working part time and pioneering (after non stop "counseling by local elders and the CO, and soon left for Bethel).
Speaking up or against the Watchtower's calamity howling = labeled: APOSTATE with loss of privileges or worse...
Yes, I will never forget.
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37
1975 !
by Sea Breeze inhow many of you here remember 1975?
i hope the newer generations never forget.the true believers got shamed for it.
those who were hedging their bets, fared much better.
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Balaamsass2
From the late 60s until 1976 Watchtower beat the drum of 1975 weekly at the book study (Freedom of the Sons of God", even Bible Studies were given only 6 months because "the end is so soon!....then it was crickets in 1976.JWfacts has a great summary:
"From 1966 to 1975, the Watchtower regularly implied that Armageddon would arrive in 1975. However, ask one of Jehovah's Witnesses about this date and they will invariably deny there ever being such statements. The following exhaustive list of quotes show Watchtower left little to the imagination regarding 1975.
In 1980, Watchtower admitted "considerable expectation was aroused regarding the year 1975" from information printed in its publications.
The Watchtower strongly implied the end would come in 1975.
"With the appearance of the book Life Everlasting-in Freedom of the Sons of God, and its comments as to how appropriate it would be for the millennial reign of Christ to parallel the seventh millennium of man's existence, considerable expectation was aroused regarding the year 1975. ... Unfortunately, however, along with such cautionary information, there were other statements published that implied that such realization of hopes by that year was more of a probability than a mere possibility." Watchtower 1980 Mar 15 p.17
Regular implications that 1975 would bring Armageddon resulted in many Jehovah's Witnesses firmly believing this was going to be the end.
The growth rate of publishers before and after 1975 proves the significance of 1975 for Jehovah's Witnesses and the affect of Armageddon's failure to eventuate at that time."- wait! There's more!
...."
1975 Watchtower Quotes
The idea that 1975 would culminate in the end of the world was introduced in 1966.
"The published timetable resulting from this independent study gives the date of man's creation as 4026 B.C.E. According to this trustworthy Bible chronology six thousand years from man's creation will end in 1975, and the seventh period of a thousand years of human history will begin in the fall of 1975 C.E. So six thousand years of man's existence on earth will soon be up, yes, within this generation. So in not many years within our own generation we are reaching what Jehovah God could view as the seventh day of man's existence. How appropriate it would be for Jehovah God to make of this coming seventh period of a thousand years a sabbath period of rest and release, a great Jubilee sabbath for the proclaiming of liberty throughout the earth to all its inhabitants! This would be most timely for mankind. It would also be most fitting on God's part, for, remember, mankind has yet ahead of it what the last book of the Holy Bible speaks of as the reign of Jesus Christ over earth for a thousand years, the millennial reign of Christ. It would not be by mere chance or accident but would be according to the loving purpose of Jehovah God for the reign of Jesus Christ, the 'Lord of the Sabbath,' to run parallel with the seventh millennium of man's existence." Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God 1966 pp.26-30
Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God p.35"Does God's rest day parallel the time man has been on earth since his creation? Apparently so. In what year, then, would the first 6,000 years of man's existence and also the first 6,000 years of Gods rest day come to an end? The year 1975. It means that within a relatively few years we will witness the fulfilment of the remaining prophecies that have to do with the "time of the end"." Awake! 1966 Oct 8 pp.19-20
"It did not take the brothers very long to find the chart beginning on page 31, showing that 6,000 years of man's existence end in 1975. Discussion of 1975 overshadowed about everything else. "The new book compels us to realize that Armageddon is, in fact, very close indeed," said a conventioner. Surely it was one of the outstanding blessings to be carried home!" .. Brother Franz. 'Does it mean that Armageddon is going to be finished, with Satan bound, by 1975? It could! It could! All things are possible with God. Does it mean that Babylon the Great is going to go down by 1975? It could. Does it mean that the attack of Gog of Magog is going to be made on Jehovah's witnesses to wipe them out, then Gog himself will be put out of action? It could. But we are not saying. All things are possible with God. But we are not saying. And don't any of you be specific in saying anything that is going to happen between now and 1975. But the big point of it all is this, dear friends: Time is short. Time is running out, no question about that." Watchtower 1966 Oct 15 pp.629,631
In 1967, Watchtower wrote that "sudden death" was "only a few short years ahead of us" and to come within the generation that had seen both world wars.
"the danger of sudden death is staring you in the face. ... That is exactly the case with the warning that we speak of here, and there are reasons why it can truly be said to be the most urgent warning ever given. ... It is to come within the generation that has already seen two world wars and it is only a few short years ahead of us." Watchtower 1967 Apr 15 pp.243-244
At the 1967 District Convention, Wisconsin Sheboygan District Overseer Brother Charles Sinutko presented the talk "Serving with Everlasting Life in View", making the following statement:
"Stay Alive to Seventy Five"
Download MP3"Well now, as Jehovah's Witnesses, as runners, even though some of us have become a little weary, it almost seems as though Jehovah has provided meat in due season. Because he's held up before all of us, a new goal. A new year. Something to reach out for and it just seems it has given all of us so much more energy and power in this final burst of speed to the finish line. And that's the year 1975. Well, we don't have to guess what the year 1975 means if we read the Watchtower. And don't wait 'till 1975. The door is going to be shut before then. As one brother put it, "Stay alive to Seventy-Five""
In November 1968, District Overseer Duggan announced at the Pampa Texas Assembly that "not really a full 83 months remains, so lets be faithful and confident and … we will be alive beyond the war of Armageddon…," which therefore slated Armageddon by October 1975.
"83 Months remain"
Download MP3Similar comments flowed through the Watchtower during the late nineteen sixties, showing that the concept Armageddon would arrive in 1975 was encouraged, with terms such as "there is only 6 years left" used as a count down to the end.
"Just think, brothers, there are only about ninety months left before 6,000 years of man's existence on earth is completed. Do you remember what we learned at the assemblies last summer? The majority of people living today will probably be alive when Armageddon breaks out, and there are no resurrection hopes for those that are destroyed then." Kingdom Ministry 1968 Mar p.4
"The immediate future is certain to be filled with climactic events, for this old system is nearing its complete end. Within a few years at most the final parts of Bible prophecy relative to these "last days" will undergo fulfilment." Watchtower 1968 May 1 p.272
The August 15 issue of the 1968 Watchtower went into great detail to prove that 1975 really is the end of 6000 years, giving credence to 1975 speculation.
"Do we know that the seventh year from now will conclude the 6,000th year since Adam was created? And if we live to that year 1975, what should we expect to happen?" Watchtower 1968 Aug 15 p.488
"WHAT about all this talk concerning the year 1975? Lively discussions, some based on speculation, have burst into flame during recent months among serious students of the Bible. Their interest has been kindled by the belief that 1975 will mark the end of 6,000 years of human history since Adam's creation. The nearness of such an important date indeed fires the imagination and presents unlimited possibilities for discussion.
2 But wait! How do we know their calculations are correct? What basis is there for saying Adam was created nearly 5,993 years ago? Does the one Book that can be implicitly trusted for its truthful historical accuracy, namely, the Inspired Word of Jehovah, the Holy Bible, give support and credence to such a conclusion?
35 One thing is absolutely certain, Bible chronology reinforced with fulfilled Bible prophecy shows that six thousand years of man's existence will soon be up, yes, within this generation! (Matt. 24:34) This is, therefore, no time to be indifferent and complacent. This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that "concerning that day and hour nobody knows , neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father." (Matt. 24:36) To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end. Make no mistake, it is sufficient that the Father himself knows both the "day and hour"!
36 Even if one cannot see beyond 1975, is this any reason to be less active? The apostles could not see even this far; they knew nothing about 1975. All they could see was a short time ahead in which to finish the work assigned to them." Watchtower 1968 Aug 15 p.494 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975?"Are we to assume from this study that the battle of Armageddon will be all over by the autumn of 1975, and the long-looked-for thousand-year reign of Christ will begin by then? Possibly, but we wait to see how closely the seventh thousand-year period of man’s existence coincides with the sabbathlike thousand-year reign of Christ. If these two periods run parallel with each other as to the calendar year, it will not be by mere chance or accident but will be according to Jehovah’s loving and timely purposes. Our chronology, however, which is reasonably accurate (but admittedly not infallible), at the best only points to the autumn of 1975 as the end of 6,000 years of man’s existence on earth. It does not necessarily mean that 1975 marks the end of the first 6,000 years of Jehovah’s seventh creative “day.” Why not? Because after his creation Adam lived some time during the “sixth day,” which unknown amount of time would need to be subtracted from Adam’s 930 years, to determine when the sixth seven-thousand-year period or “day” ended, and how long Adam lived into the “seventh day.” And yet the end of that sixth creative “day” could end within the same Gregorian calendar year of Adam’s creation. It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years." Watchtower 1968 Aug 15 p.499
"The fact that fifty-four years of the period called the "last days" have already gone by is highly significant. It means that only a few years, at most, remain before the corrupt system of things dominating the earth is destroyed by God." Awake! 1968 Oct 8 p.13
"Many schools now have student counselors who encourage one to pursue higher education after high school, to pursue a career with a future in this system of things. Do not be influenced by them. Do not let them "brainwash" you with the Devil's propaganda to get ahead, to make something of yourself in this world. This world has very little time left! Any "future" this world offers is no future! Wisely, then, let God's Word influence you in selecting a course that will result in your protection and blessing. Make pioneer service, the full-time ministry, with the possibility of Bethel or missionary service your goal. This is a life that offers an everlasting future!" Watchtower 1969 Mar 15 p.171
"If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things. Why not? Because all the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years. Of the generation that observed the beginning of the "last days" in 1914, Jesus foretold: "This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur."-Matt. 24:34. Therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers. If you are in highschool and thinking about a college education, it means at least four, perhaps even six or eight more years to graduate into a specialized career. But where will this system of things be by that time? It will be well on the way toward its finish, if not actually gone!" Awake! 1969 May 22 p.15
"Bible chronology which indicates that Adam was created in the fall of the year 4026 B.C.E. would bring us down to the year 1975 C.E. as the date marking 6,000 years of human history with yet 1,000 years to come for Christ's Kingdom rule. So whatever the date for the end of this system, it is clear that the time left is reduced, with only approximately six years left until the end of 6,000 years of human history." Watchtower 1970 May 1 p.273
In the Awake! 1971 October 8, a timeline was presented with the caption "As we near the end of 6,000 years of human history in the mid-1970's there is the thrilling hope of a grand relief." In the timeline the "Millennial reign of Jesus Christ" starts on the six thousandth year.
"And now, as the year 1975 opens up, some thousands of the anointed remnant, still alive on this earth, look ahead to realizing that joyful prospect. The increasing "great crowd" of their sheeplike companions look forward with them to entering the New Order without interruption of life. In the New Order Jehovah God will add to the "length of days" of the anointed remnant on earth to the point of satisfying the members thereof. It remains to be seen whether they will be yet retained here on earth to see the start of the resurrection of the earthly dead and to meet faithful witnesses of ancient, pre-Christian times. They would enjoy that, before being taken off the earthly scene to the heavenly reward with Christ." Watchtower 1974 Dec 15 p.766
Watchtower was still promoting such expectations in 1975. During an Assembly part on February 10th, 1975 in Los Angeles, Fred Franz referred to Live Everlasting Life in Freedom of the Sons of God, saying:
"And then if we turn to page 35 we are starting to see the year nineteen hundred and seventy five, where we actually are. And, what does it say with regard to 1975? It says, the end, now notice this, the end of the six one thousand year day of man's existence in early autumn. And then it carries us beyond that, beyond this year, the next date is 2075. So you see, we haven't much left till this year 1975. It going to end at sundown of September the 5th, and that immediately after September the the 5th, why the millennial kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ must begin in order to fulfil the final thousand years of God's great seven creative days, and they're expecting the great tribulation to occur and the destruction of Babylon the Great and the annihilation of all the political systems of this world and then the binding of Satan and his demons and their abyssing to occur before this year is ended, this year nineteen hundred and seventy five, and immediately thereafter the thousand year reign of the Lord Jesus Christ to begin. Now that is all it says about the year 1975. (Audience applauses.)"
This is a 8mb audio file of Franz's speech and may take a few seconds to start.
The May 1st, 1975 Watchtower refers to a similar speech Fred Franz delivered at the March 2nd, 1975 graduation program for Watchtower Bible School of Gilead.
"Another speaker, F. W. Franz, the Society’s vice-president, forcefully impressed on the audience the urgency of the Christian preaching work. He stressed that, according to dependable Bible chronology, 6,000 years of human history will end this coming September according to the lunar calendar. This coincides with a time when “the human species [is] about to starve itself to death,” as well as its being faced with poisoning by pollution and destruction by nuclear weapons. Franz added: “There’s no basis for believing that mankind, faced with what it now faces, can exist for the seventh thousand-year period” under the present system of things.
Does this mean that we know exactly when God will destroy this old system and establish a new one? Franz showed that we do not, for we do not know how short was the time interval between Adam’s creation and the creation of Eve, at which point God’s rest day of seven thousand years began. (Heb. 4:3, 4) But, he pointed out, “we should not think that this year of 1975 is of no significance to us,” for the Bible proves that Jehovah is “the greatest chronologist” and “we have the anchor date, 1914, marking the end of the Gentile Times.” So, he continued, “we are filled with anticipation for the near future, for our generation.”—Matt. 24:34." Watchtower 1975 May 1 p.285Fear Mongering
The Watchtower publications dwelt extensively on how bad world conditions were, using secular quotes to support that the world could not continue beyond 1975. For instance, Awake! 1968 Oct 8 included the following quote on page 15;
"… U.S. Secretary of State Dean Acheson said in 1960: "I know enough of what is going on to assure you that, in 15 years from today [or, by 1975], this world is going to be too dangerous to live in."
Also from the same page:
"One of the greatest problems, beyond man's solving, is the coming food shortage due to the population explosion. In the book Famine-1975! food experts W. and P. Paddock state:
"By 1975 a disaster of unprecedented magnitude will face the world. Famines, greater than any in history, will ravage the undeveloped nations.”
"I forecast a specific date, 1975, when the new crisis will be upon us in all its awesome importance."
"By 1975 civil disorder, anarchy, military dictatorships, runaway inflation, transportation breakdowns and chaotic unrest will be the order of the day in many of the hungry nations.""Humans were said to be on the verge of starvation, poisoning or nuclear destruction.
"This coincides with a time when “the human species [is] about to starve itself to death,” as well as its being faced with poisoning by pollution and destruction by nuclear weapons." Watchtower 1975 May 1 p.285
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Loyalty to the Governing Body? Timeline to Change
by blondie inhttps://jwfacts.com/watchtower/governing-body.php .
here is an example how the wts has "adjusted" scripture.
the governing body has gone as far as to change the text of micah 6:8 in their 2013 new world translation of the holy scriptures (nwt) in order to be able to demand loyalty.
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Balaamsass2
Wow....just wow. Who are the REAL apostates?
They want millions of JWs to bow down and worship them.
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800-why-1914 helpline, Marilyn Zweifel
by coffee_black infor many years, since the mid 80s, marilyn zweifel manned the help-line.
several months ago, the help-line stopped due to marilyn's serious health issues.
marilyn was hospitalized a few weeks ago.. she has serious health issues and has suffered from 2 serious falls... she is now in a nursing home.
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Balaamsass2
Wish I could have met her. Nice read and way to remember her.
