Berean Pickets is not affiliated with WTBTS at all. It is a site created by some who have disagreed with the inaccurate doctrines of the WT. Some are elders who have stood down due to the persistent refusal of WT to correct it's deceptions and the GBs almost godlike status, amongst other things......
umbertoecho
JoinedPosts by umbertoecho
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24
Bible Students Convention ......New Understanding of 607!!
by umbertoecho injuly 23, 2015 at 3:35 pm.
i have just read this from berean pickets in the comment section.
it's quite a leap.
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Bible Students Convention ......New Understanding of 607!!
by umbertoecho injuly 23, 2015 at 3:35 pm.
i have just read this from berean pickets in the comment section.
it's quite a leap.
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umbertoecho
I have no idea. I would like to know what "proof" they have come up with. What I find interesting, is the fact that they feel compelled in some way, to explain this long faulted doctrine. It seems like a back sliding or just loading up some sort of banal reasoning to justify this strange and inaccurate teaching of theirs.
WT has noticed the dissent, it must be obvious to them, even from a cursory view of the internet. I think it's a rather desperate attempt to qualify a long disqualified claim. As we all know, 1914 is absolutely important to them, for everything hinges on making this fit in with their version of the "truth", or the imminence of the end....
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Bible Students Convention ......New Understanding of 607!!
by umbertoecho injuly 23, 2015 at 3:35 pm.
i have just read this from berean pickets in the comment section.
it's quite a leap.
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umbertoecho
I have just read this from Berean Pickets in the comment section. It's quite a leap. What do you think of this.....I find it quite amazing how this new twist to make "it fit" has been approached. By the way. Berean Pickets is quite a good site for information related to doctrine. Not harsh, good research etc.........The posters name is there I think. At any rate, he felt strongly enough to send the message straight through.........
"I am at the Bible Students Convention in PA. There was just a discourse on how the date for the beginning of the invasion of Jerusalem is 607BC. The destruction of Jerusalem is in 587BC. So 2,520 days from 607BC is 1914. So the date is correct it’s just that the understanding of what happened in 607BC is incorrect."
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Love and forgiveness....
by Tornintwo ini've been musing a lot about the 'love' that exists in the organisation.
what i've noticed over the last 20 odd years is that an overemphasis on the requirement for forgiveness by those who have been wronged.
of course as christians we should forgive eachother, but i'm talking about obvious abusive and bullying behaviour by 'prominent' ones, which is excused by the ageold 'we are all imperfect'..... 'its an organisation of imperfect men....', you should forgive.....and quickly dismissed.
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umbertoecho
In response to a question as to "how often one should forgive" Christ said something about seventy seven times. That was in response to a person" asking for forgiveness" and therefore, implied that the one doing wrong was contrite. It was not about forgiving someone who didn't care or seek to repair the damage done.
So, if someone should request forgiveness for past wrongs, then it is a sign of regret. When the person or entity makes no attempt to seek forgiveness, I see no command to go about forgiving.
I may have this wrong.........but I don't think I am far off the mark.
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23
Facing up to the reality of the world
by purrpurr insince becoming atheist i have been paying more attention to world events and issues.
this is giving me some worry's when i see what's going on.
as a jw i could just dismiss stuff saying "armageddon is coming, jehovah will look after us" etc etc now of course i can't do that.
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umbertoecho
purrpurr,
You may have left religion behind or even a belief in god. That doesn't mean you are no more a spiritual person. I think that is the thing to remember. Being spiritual and having an ethic toward this world is it'self a wonderful thing. It comes without all the cruelty domination, subjection to bullies either political or religious.............
This earth has been around so long and there has always been struggle for survival, or of one kingdom over another, one culture over another. There was a time not so far back, when our knowledge of what went on in the world was limited to those few who travelled and were able to recount their experiences. We relied upon our news outlets and that invariably gave a slanted view. If you ever wonder at moguls of the news world, you would be fascinated to find "how low" these media moguls stooped, to get a story. It had to be bad, dramatic, scary.
And now, we are constantly fed "news". The sort of news that will stir up anxiety or slant our views politically. If not for this constant stream of information we would all be living in our own little world........still.
I have taken the view that it is best to concentrate on what I can fix in sphere of influence and to distance myself from what is hopeless and out of my control. I have been a student of history at university and found that throughout history, the cruelty and the greatness of men is not so different from today. You were religious once weren't you? Perhaps one of the greatest weapons to our well being, brought about by religions is the tool of "dread" that they use to good effect in making us anxious about our future. Religion "needs" disaster and fear to survive and seem credible. I know it was my daily fare through out my childhood and young teenage years.
I hope you can start to choose, really choose, what you will subject your heart and thoughts too. Take some time to decide what you will allow into your mind. I'm not saying don't care, but it may be a good idea to find some interest or cause that you can help with. I'm an old sort of woman now compared to many who are probably on this site. But I have found that age is not a problem with an age group when a person such as yourself is concerned with global matters. Take it easy purrpurr and be very gentle with your heart and mind.
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Did you know WTBTS applied for Holocaust compensation?
by umbertoecho indid you know that the wtbts applied for these compensation funds?
i had no idea and if this has already been addressed then so be it.
i find it interesting due to the fact that so much is made of the jws being in camps during ww2 and nothing else is expressed about the other millions who died in these camps.
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umbertoecho
If their coffers get low enough, I suppose they'll be going after the current Egyptian government for damages caused when the Israelites were held captive there.
Ha ha ha ha ha...........oh I really love that humour. Love it a lot.
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Did you know WTBTS applied for Holocaust compensation?
by umbertoecho indid you know that the wtbts applied for these compensation funds?
i had no idea and if this has already been addressed then so be it.
i find it interesting due to the fact that so much is made of the jws being in camps during ww2 and nothing else is expressed about the other millions who died in these camps.
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umbertoecho
As a composite "Governing Body" They have no trouble refusing to follow the dictates of the law where it is a felony to abuse children, or anyone else for that matter. And they suffer no anxiety on a moral level either. In this they are very distant and clear about NOT accepting any blame.
Yet, as composite "Governing Body", it is perfectly okay to seek compensation for people who died, suffered or what ever in those death camps.
This level of dirty money grabbing makes me shudder at the bastards outrageous, blatant greed.
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Manipulation of child minds
by Marvin Shilmer intoday i read a comment on my blog about an image found in a 1958 watchtower publication titled from paradise lost to paradise regained.
it reminded me of what went through my mind back in those years.
watchtower meeting agendas were notoriously boring with the result of children (including teenagers) spending their time looking at pictures in great detail.
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umbertoecho
OMG! I grew up with that book and remember those illustrations. They worried and frightened me because I knew, just knew...........I was never going to make it!! -
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Did you know WTBTS applied for Holocaust compensation?
by umbertoecho indid you know that the wtbts applied for these compensation funds?
i had no idea and if this has already been addressed then so be it.
i find it interesting due to the fact that so much is made of the jws being in camps during ww2 and nothing else is expressed about the other millions who died in these camps.
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umbertoecho
Exactly!! The WT makes is abundantly clear that it was seeking compensation for it'self as an entity, a sort of composite body if you like. And in that capacity it felt entitled to claim money for themselves, not for those who were descendants of that time.
This is crude, vulgar........so many horrible words come to mind.
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Did you know WTBTS applied for Holocaust compensation?
by umbertoecho indid you know that the wtbts applied for these compensation funds?
i had no idea and if this has already been addressed then so be it.
i find it interesting due to the fact that so much is made of the jws being in camps during ww2 and nothing else is expressed about the other millions who died in these camps.
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umbertoecho
Jan212004Did you know that the WTBTS applied for these compensation funds? I had no idea and if this has already been addressed then so be it. I find it interesting due to the fact that so much is made of the JWs being in camps during WW2 and nothing else is expressed about the other millions who died in these camps.
The Watchtower Society’s application for funds from Swiss Bank Litigation
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF
NEW YORKIn re Holocaust Victim Assets Litigation:
Master Document No. CV -96-4849
(ERK) (MDG)
Consolidates with CV-96-S161 and : CV-96-461This Document Relates to All Actions :
Holocaust Victim Assets Litigation (Swiss Bank Litigation)
Proposed Plan of Allocation for
Jehovah’s Witness Victims and Targets of Nazi PersecutionDecember 7, 1999
COMES NOW, the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, (hereinafter Watch Tower), the corporate agency directing the administrative and religious work of Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide, by its attorney, Carolyn R. Wah, requesting an allocation of a portion of the settlement fund for Holocaust education and remembrance as well as just and equitable compensation as outlined below:
As the attached report entitled “Spiritual Resistance and Its Cost for a Christian Minority: A Documentary Report of Jehovah’s Witnesses Under Nazism, 1933-1945″ will show, the Nazi persecution of Jehovah’s Witnesses, which spanned virtually the entire Nazi period, exacted a heavy physical, financial, and emotional toll on that small religious community in all Nazi- occupied lands. The report also evidences that the Witnesses’ individual and organized stance in opposition to the violent ideology of the regime was a decisive factor in the severity of the persecution, resulting in profound losses.
Although conclusive documentation may be lacking for the claims of individuals targeted as Jehovah’s Witnesses; there are three factors that argue for a favorable hearing for the individual applicants, even where the elusive “Swiss connection” may be weak:
(1) Since Jehovah’s Witnesses were among the earliest groups to be targeted for sentencing to concentration camps, they were often used in the actual construction of the camps. In some cases, the SS-run camps could, in themselves, be considered commercial enterprises that benefited from slave labor. Because the Witnesses had been in the camp system for long periods of time, they sometimes worked for the camp administration, but without due compensation, of course
(2) Witness literature often carried sharp criticism of flagrant human rights violations in Nazi Germany. This was true of Witness literature produced and distributed clandestinely within Nazi-occupied Europe, as well as Witness literature published internationally. The Gestapo was well aware of the critical and revealing content of the literature, and thus they expended extraordinary effort to expose and destroy the secret printing facilities. They confiscated printing equipment, burned stocks of literature whenever it was found, and hunted down and executed many of those involved with the underground work. Thus, the nonviolent resistance offered by the Witnesses increased the financial, material, and physical losses they sustained.
(3) The nonviolent, nonpolitical resistance of Jehovah’s Witnesses to Nazi policies is distinctive for its duration and consistency. It is not possible to quantify the losses suffered by families whose mothers or fathers were given lengthy sentences in camp or prison because of their faith. Beyond the lost wages, lost property, and lost years are the intangible costs suffered by all victims of Nazi terror. Unlike other victims, however, most Witnesses had a choice. Generally, they were targeted solely because of their religious convictions. Witnesses were offered the opportunity to avoid persecution simply by renouncing their beliefs. Therefore, by virtue of the length of the persecution and the nature of their resistance, we ask that the court grant special consideration to the applications of Witness survivors or their heirs, which will no doubt be few in number. Further, the court may allocate a portion of the settlement to be used for purposes of Holocaust education and remembrance. Combating intolerance and indifference is extremely important work. The Watch Tower and individual Jehovah’s Witnesses have expended hundreds of thousands of dollars to promote awareness of the Holocaust and its lessons. The Watch Tower and its affiliate branch offices have made educational and academic presentations, free of admission charge, in the United States, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Israel, and most countries of Eastern and Western Europe. More than 400 seminars and exhibitions have been held in
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Germany alone, often in cooperation with concentration camp memorials, research institutions, and museums. Important research and archival work is being conducted in Germany, the Netherlands, Austria, Poland, Russia, Israel, and other places.
The few remaining Witness survivors have used their waning vitality to speak to young people, educators, and scholars about their experiences and those of their martyred fellow believers. If the court sees fit to allocate a portion of the settlement fund to the Watch Tower to continue this work of remembrance, we believe it would constitute fitting recognition of individual Witnesses who suffered and died while maintaining their faith and human values.
Some Witnesses died prematurely and left no heirs to make a claim to the Swiss Bank Settlement Fund. However, the legacy of spiritual resistance that they left behind is of great value in the education of future generations about the importance of standing up for the dignity and value of human life. Representing these individuals, the Watch Tower would be pleased to devote any allocated moneys solely to the interests of Holocaust education and the remembrance of the prisoners who bore the purple triangle, according as the court might stipulate.
Realizing that thousands of survivors and heirs will apply to the court to receive a portion of the Settlement Fund, Watch Tower is not in a position to recommend a certain percentage to be allotted for the purposes outlined above, nor are we able to suggest what portion of the Fund should be allotted to individual Witness survivors. Watch Tower acknowledges that no amount of money can fully compensate for the losses of any victims of Nazi persecution. However, if the funds provided by the Swiss Banks Settlement can symbolically or practically mitigate the human suffering of survivors or their families, or if it can advance the work of education and remembrance, the money will have been well spent. In this allocation process, we rely on the court’s equity and fairness.
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WHERFORE, in light of this information, Watch Tower, respectfully request an award in harmony with the just and equitable principles outlined in the settlement order.
December 7,1999.
Respectfully submitted,
signature
Carolyn R. Wah
Associate General Counsel
Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society
of Pennsylvania
100 Watchtower Drive
Patterson, NY 12563
Tel: (914) 306-0700
Fax: (914) 306-0709