the gospel of salvation -- the good news of jesus christ:
plain and simple, according to the holy scriptures
if you have any questions or comments, please e-mail me at [email protected].
Deputy d,
I could'nt said it better.
It only works when the person you are talking to believes the entire Bible!
Maybe the bible can:
Ps. 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right and true; he is faithful in all he does.
Jer. 23:28 Let the prophet who has a dream tell his dream, but the one who has my word speak it faithfully. 29 "Is not my word like fire."
ellderwho
the gospel of salvation -- the good news of jesus christ:
plain and simple, according to the holy scriptures
if you have any questions or comments, please e-mail me at [email protected].
Dearest Aguest,
Ro.8:7 because the carnel mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God nor can it be.
Aguest is your mind, different than mine? As an unbeliever did you not have a carnel mind? Or was it just alittle carnel? because you did state on the heaven thread some men have a little flicker in their hearts
8:14 for as many as are led by the spirit of God these are sons of God.
8:26 like wise the spirit also helps in our weakness for we do not know what we should pray for as we ought.
8:29 for whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his son.
8:30 moreover whom he predestined these he also called; whom he called; these he also justified...
Ro.9:11 For the children not yet being born, nor having any good or evil, but the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of him that calls.
9:13 as it is written Jacob I have loved Esau I have hated. I thought Easu had a choice?
9:15 for he says to Moses I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy on, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion on
9:16 So it is not of mans desire or effort, but of God who shows mercy,
9:17 scripture says about Pharoah; I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power.
what was Pharoahs' choice?
9:18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. again I ask you what was Judas' choice?
Ro 11:29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. What about Jonah did he choose?
2Cor 1:9 yes we had the sentence of death in ourselves that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God who raised the dead, were's the flicker here?
4:6 for it is God who commanded light to shine out of the darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
Gal. 1:15 But when it pleased God who seperated me from my mothers womb and called me through his grace. didnt you say Paul had a choice?
1:16 to reveal his son in me. No choice here.
Gal 4:8 But then indeed when you did not know God, you served those who by nature were not gods.
4:9 but now after you have known God or rather are known by God... no choice here.
5:3 you have been called to liberty, only do not use the liberty as an opportunity for the flesh.
no choice here.
Eph.1:4 just as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world. I thought you said we choose him?
Aguest----------------- I asked... and I received.
1:5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to himself. No choice here.
1:11 In him we also have obtained as inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will. Aguest did I choose my predestination?
2:1 and you he made alive who were dead in trespass and sins. I thought you said we can choose?
2:3 among whom also we all conducted ourselves in the lust of our flesh and in the mind and by nature children of wrath. I thought you said we have to search ourselves to see if something is there?
2:5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ. I thought you said we can choose?
4:4 there is one body and one spirit just as you were called in one hope of your calling. Did we choose our calling?
Phil.1:6 being confident of this very thing that he who has begun a work in you, will complete it until the day of Christ. by your theology YOU begin the work in yourself.
Col 1:26 the mystery which has been hidden from the ages and from generations but now has been revealed to his saints.
1:27 to them God willed to make known them the riches of the glory of this mystery among the gentiles
no choice here?
2:13 and you being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he made you alive together with him. Your theology; you can make yourself alive. remember, you said "for those who might have a flicker in their hearts"
3:12 therefore as the elect of God holy and beloved put on tender mercies.
I thought you said "if we draw to him?"
1Thes2:12 that you would walk worthy of God who calls you into his own kingdom. I thought we had a choice?
2Thes 2:13 but we are bound to give thanks to God always for you brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the begining chose you for salvation through the sanctification by the spirit. I thought you said we can choose God
Aguest-------------That if you draw close to God... He will draw close to YOU...
2:14 to which he called you by our gospel for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord. Who called on who?
2Tim1:8 who has saved us an called us with a holy calling not according to our works but according to his own pleasure. Aguest, whose pleasure, ours or His?
Aguest--Sigh! Unfortunately, dear ones... I cannot agree with any of that. Because I KNOW... that if YOU turn to God... He will receive you, through Christ. If YOU... grope for HIM... He will LET Himself be found by you, through Christ.
I bid you peace,
ellderwho
the gospel of salvation -- the good news of jesus christ:
plain and simple, according to the holy scriptures
if you have any questions or comments, please e-mail me at [email protected].
Undisfellow States:
Heb 10:37-38 For in just a little while, "he who is coming will come and will not delay. 38 but my righteous one will live by faith, and if he shrinks back I will not be pleased with him," 39 but we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved."but is long-suffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Look at 1Cor.1:26 .." brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards.... v30 "It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God-"
1Cor 2:5 " so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on Gods power.
v12 "we have not received the spirit of the world but the spirit who is from God, that we might understand what God has freely given us."
v14 The man without the spirit does not accept the things that come from the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him. And he cannot understand them.
You state:
That appears to me to show that humans have freedom to choose whether or not they will repent.
Heb 10:37 "but my righteous one will live by faith, and if he shrinks back I will not be pleased with him,"
Are the ones Peter is referring to already believers that fall back into sin? when Peter refers to them as "dear friends." Then he later tells them how they should be living holy and Godly lives v15 Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation.." v17 therefore dear friends, since you already know this be on your guard..."
My opinion is that 2Pet3:9 Does not teach that man can choose God.
I believe that christians receive the "repentive spirit" from God to begin with.
Got to get to work write more later.
ellderwho
the gospel of salvation -- the good news of jesus christ:
plain and simple, according to the holy scriptures
if you have any questions or comments, please e-mail me at [email protected].
Deputy D,
well said,
Some day she may see that it doesn't matter what I say, you say or what she says. It only matters what GOD says!
However, as the "BIBLE" says, Gods word is useful in teaching, rebuking, etc... Should I, in this setting where doctrine gets batted around , not want to keep in check, a persons veiws' verses what the BIBLE actually teaches.
If their is doctrine that is being floated out to this forum, I think it should be subjected to a healthy srcutinizing with the use of scripture.
In Christ
ellderwho
the gospel of salvation -- the good news of jesus christ:
plain and simple, according to the holy scriptures
if you have any questions or comments, please e-mail me at [email protected].
aguest,
You can post long and convoluted answers which really are biblical double speak. You NEVER ANSWER THE question.
How do you explain humans being spiritually DEAD. And you, yourself, reviving yourself into spiritually life?
You absolutely go against what Paul teaches, I have given you over 30 verses reflecting what the bible teaches not what I teach. Your dispute is with scripture not me.
aguest;
There are SO many scriptures and verses to support this that I don't know where to begin!
Come now dearest aguest,
You can certainly start somewhere give me something, anything.
Oh, you give these
James 4:6, 1 Peter 5:5, 6, Matthew 23:12, Luke 14:11 and Isaiah 58:6-59:2
and then I ask you, based on this, WHOSE choice it is?
Being humble. Please dearest aguest.These scriptures dont say anything about choice. Nor do they teach it
You state;
True, God WILL humble us... if we do not humble ourselves.
Were is the reasoning here.
But that is not a "good" humbling, is it?
What?
Is that how He even wants to do it, humble us rather than we humble ourselves?
Huh?
I believe He wants US to do it.
You believe, thats it, its YOU. Not me, not the bible, you.
Thus, if it remains with us to humble ourselves so that God can and WILL exalt us... WHOSE choice IS it?
Those scriptures spoke of having a humble attitude, whats your point?
Being a humble human is NOT preemptive to salvation.
Your quoted veres in no way define choice, you quoted none of the usual "choice" verses why? Im not sure but you still are faced with the delima;
answer the 30 some verses Ive showed together to cement my point, Aguest you have shown no refutation.
Again show me were the bible TEACHES choice.
Finally you state;
your replying accurately to my question.
according to you, Ive responded correctly.
So what does that prove. That you approve of my theology, my answer, I could have pulled that answer out of a text book and you would have never known the difference.
Futhermore you state;
Hmmmm... personally, for ME... that is truly all it takes. My FAITH...
By the way, this faith you say you have doesnt even start with you, its not your faith.
You state Abraham,
You must understand that God has passed universal judgement on mankind, he sees that all men are without faith: "they have all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no not one" Rom 3:12 That included Abraham.
Abraham came from a family of idol worshippers, and was most likely a idol worshipper himself.You mention the book of Joshua, ironic.
in the last chapter of Jos. He reminds them of their pagen past; "thus saith the LORD God of Israel, your fathers dwelt on the other side of the river (Euphrates) of old, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nahor; and they served other gods. And I took your father Abraham, from the other side of the river, and lead him throughout all the land of Canaan, and multiplied his seed, and gave him Isaac.
You mention Isaiah; okay,
"hearken unto Me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek the Lord; look unto the rock from which ye are hewn, and to the hole of the pit from which ye were diggged. Look unto Abraham, your father, and unto Sarah, who bore you" The idea is, their is nothing in their ancestary that conmends them to God.
Abrahams grandson Jacob,
Even his name means "schemer" (subplanter) all his scheming made his own brothers want to kill him. Jacob goes back to his roots, uncle Laben, then marries the sisters. This relationship eventually falls apart, Laben goes away on business, Jacob takes off with the daughters, Laben catches up and finds all the idols in the saddle bag. Gen 31.
The point, Abraham relatives are still idol worshippers even though God chose Abraham.
Israel, choosen, or chosed God ?
Duet 7, Moses tells us why God chose Israel to be the nation to which he would give the law and eventually the savior.
" the LORD did not chose you because ye were great in number than any people; for ye were the fewest in number than any people. But because the LORD loved you..." 7-8
Why did God love them? because he loved them. Why did he choose them? because he chose them. this is not human logic, this is divine logic. Its the logic of GRACE.
Abrahams faith was preceeded by Gods call. The call came twice, once in Ur of the Chaldees (acts 7:2-4), and once, years later when he was in Haran.
Remember this?
"now the Lord said unto Abram, 'get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will show thee; and I will make thee a great nation...." gen 12:1
doesnt sound like choice to me
His departure from Ur was his first step of faith.
You state;
But, to help you get the sense of WHY what is whispered in MY ear is sufficient for ME
Who whisperd to you first? Who loved you first?
You can mix your few scriptures in a bowl all you want , you will never be able to show that is what the bible teaches.
I leave you in peace,
ellderwho
the gospel of salvation -- the good news of jesus christ:
plain and simple, according to the holy scriptures
if you have any questions or comments, please e-mail me at [email protected].
Gumby,
LOL,LOL man Im sitten here "howling" Ive openened that "can of worms" on the Heaven thread, spent alot of time but I may have tired Shelby out. I took her for a swim in scripture and come to find out shes really a "scripitual spiritizing swimmer" You know "lets take one verse and jump up and down on it without contextualizing" I smell a little Jw-ism there.
the gospel of salvation -- the good news of jesus christ:
plain and simple, according to the holy scriptures
if you have any questions or comments, please e-mail me at [email protected].
the Bible cannot lead you to life. Only Christ can. And the Bible cannot lead you to Christ. Only God can. And you will only BE led... to Christ... and to life... if you GO TO HIM.Draw close to GOD... and He, by means of Christ... will draw close to YOU. How do you do that?
Aguest, you know Im going to question you on this. Why do you tell people they can choose God. Ive asked you to prove this, and were unable. Why? because its not in scripture.
Show this forum how your doctrine works. From scriptures and where in scripture does it teach this so-called Choice.
If your going to step out and proclaim this is what "your Lord" has told you to teach you better be able to back it up. With something more than it was whispered in my ear.
ellderwho
.
been studying this for a while i think this is a good leverage point if theirs anything written.. ive checked usual spots gtr, babylon the great, insight, any help much appreciated.
Thanks Alleymom,
Thanks
would love to elaborate, no time, leaving for the shore, I have to hurry the wife will have a fit if Im posting with everything to do still, I guess Im hooked here(addicted)
talk ina week
ellderwho
.
been studying this for a while i think this is a good leverage point if theirs anything written.. ive checked usual spots gtr, babylon the great, insight, any help much appreciated.
cityfan,
my point, if you back track the years given by the society you can not reach 624 the year society gives as the starting year for King Neb.
ellderwho
i was talking with a jw friend and he said that they believed they would live here on earth forever.
he told me a verse in psalms were it says "...the meek will inherit the earth.
" for those who believe in heaven, what does this verse mean?
Aguest,
I will follow up in a week, for Im going on vacation saturday morning lots to do.
hope to talk with you again as well as answer your question,
In Christ
ellderwho
