The 1914 Doctrine and The Threat of the Egibi Business Tablets

by VM44 349 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • scholar
    scholar

    Jeffro

    Jeremiah does not say a lot of things and one thing he does not say is that the seventy years was a period of Babylonian domination, he says only that Judah would serve Babylon for seventy years and in that same context he describes the desolation of the land. This can only mean that the exile and servitude to Babylon was commensurate with the seventy years. His statement that the land would be a desolation with total silence can only mean that along with all of his other curses that the land would be without an inhabitant.

    You argue that because in his 52nd chapter he refers to the captivity of Jews in verse 30 numbering 745 souls but this does not prove that the Judah was inhabited during the seventy years. Jeremiah does not say where the exiles came from but only describes their nationality so they could have come from territories or surrounding nations outside of Judah. Your argument therefore fails.

    All that happened in 539 was that the Babylonian World Power ceased but the punishement as described by Jeremiah was not a fall from grace or a city conquered but a desolation of Babylon and the land of Chaldee which began after the seventy years was fulfilled in 537.The calling to account of the king of Babylon and that nation ...land of the Chaldees is a composite oracle which Jeremiah described as becoming a desolation to times indefinite. These are not my words but the direct statement of Scripture which you choose to ignore in order to support your illusory domination hypothesis and to uphold your flawed chronology which has been rejected by celebrated WT scholars for decades.

    Your interpretation is a subversion of clear biblical texts and secular history which only serves the interests of people who reject the fulfillment of prophecy.

    Yes chorbah does mean a desolation and I am not saying that it means a 'depopulation' but the use of the word 'desolation' or 'devastation' can easily suggest a depopulation. Further, because the word chorbah has a limited range of meaning, Jeremiah expanded the term by describing chorbah as without an inhabitant. Therefore, the context of Jeremiah's use of chorbah can only mean total depopulation of the land. Further, it is only in very recent times that scholars are having a new look at this period having to revise their opinions about the state of Judah during the exile. It would s come as no surprise that scholars will admit to the biblical fact that the land was devastated and depopulated as Jeremiah, Daniel and Ezra describe.

    The judgement oracle as set forth in the remainder of Jeremiah was varaiably fulfilled and does not mean that each of those nations experienced both a desolation and depoulation for seventy years because this specific judgement was only applicable to Judah. Those other nations did receive in full their respective judgements as was the case of the conqueror Babylon.

    Whether you choose to reply to my postings either now or in the future is of little consequence because I have won the debate on chronology because it is firmly based on the truthful Word of God and not the lies, deceit and false stories of the higher critics and the apostates.

    scholar JW

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro
    Whether you choose to reply to my postings either now or in the future is of little consequence because I have won the debate on chronology because it is firmly based on the truthful Word of God and not the lies, deceit and false stories of the higher critics and the apostates.

    I am not going to reply to the other points of the post because those exact points have been replied to many times. If you think you have won, and if you even think that you are being true to the bible, you are only deluding yourself.

  • scholar
    scholar

    Jeffro

    You sound like a person who has been defeated because the Bible is able to overturn strongly entrenched things and God's Word is superior to the whacky theories of higher critics and apostates who blindly follow the world into spiritual darkness.

    scholar JW

  • ackack
    ackack

    Scholar, what is your view on the kings and lengths of rule for neo-babylon?

    How do you get around the contemporary business tablets?

    ackack

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    {double post}

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro
    You sound like a person who has been defeated because the Bible is able to overturn strongly entrenched things and God's Word is superior to the whacky theories of higher critics and apostates who blindly follow the world into spiritual darkness.

    Defeated? Hardly. Bored of your repetitive drivel? Yes.

    For valid rebuttals to all of the points you have raised, refer to previous posts.

    Come back when you have something new to post.

  • gumby
    gumby

    Here's some Watchtower doubletalk for ya all from our beloved and celebrated Scholar

    I recommend that you consult the commentaries which will assist you in this matter and you will find that our interpretation is sound in that what Jesus was describing began in the past-present-future.

    Scholar "recommends" we go to the whores (christendom) books for authenticity of his religions beliefs. Imagine, satans little commentary writers publishing truths that substantiate the Jehovah's Witnesses!

    Ain't it nice when Satan agrees with Jehovahs people?

    You sound like a person who has been defeated because the Bible is able to overturn strongly entrenched things and God's Word is superior to the whacky theories of higher critics and apostates who blindly follow the world into spiritual darkness.

    I wonder if the commentaries he's suggesting to look into are part of the wacky theories critics publish who are in reality spiritual apostates? Ok scholar...we'll use christendoms books when they agree with anything the Watchtower agrees with.....and we will consider anything they say against the society's beliefs as Satans lies to decieve lovers of truth. Typical hypocracy at it's finest!

    Gumby

  • a Christian
    a Christian

    On another discussion board (Channel C) "Scholar" and COJ recently crossed swords on this same subject matter. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Dec. 3 "Scholar" wrote: COJ

    Is it not really the case that the biblical 'Seventy Years' was a period of EXILE with the bulk of the Jewish population deported to Babylon-DESOLATION and total depopulation of the land of Judah-SERVITUDE whereas the Jewish nation was under Baylonian domination as foretold by Jeremiah the prophet in Jeremiah 25:9-11, discerned by the seer Daniel in Daniel 9:2,17 and recorded by the priest and historian Ezra in 2 Chronicles 36: 20-21? cf. GTR,2004,p. 199.

    Is it not really the case that the foresaid period of 'seventy years' had its terminus a quo with the destuction of Jerusalem (607 BCE) and its terminus ad quem with the Return of the Exiles under Cyrus (537 BCE) as described by the testimony of Jeremiah, Daniel, Ezra and the Jewish historian Josephus?
    cf. the above cited texts and Antiquities X. 9. 7; X. 7.3; XI. 1. 1; XX. 10.2; Against Apion 1. 19.- GTR. 2004. p. 298, ftn. 29.

    scholar JW -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Dec. 4 COJ responded:

    Neil,

    Jeremiah 25:11 explicitly states that "these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years." The real question FOR YOU to answer, therefore, is this one: WHO are "these nations" and WHEN did they begin to serve the king of Babylon?

    Why do you ignore the primary sources (the contemporary cuneiform documents) on which the Neo-Babylonian chronology is based, and turn to the conflicting statements of a late, secondary source like Josephus?

    Carl

  • scholar
    scholar

    a Christian

    Thank you for posting the online dbate between Jonsson and myself regarding the meaning of the seventy years as iniatated by me. I would have posted this post myself on this board but I do not know how to transfer such posts from one to the other so good on you for doing so. I am waiting a reply from Jonsson to my responses so continue to watch with interest.

    scholar JW

  • scholar
    scholar

    ackack

    You ask two good questions:

    Celebrated WT scholars are not overly concerned about the regnal data for the Neo-Babylonian monarchs because this has nothing to with the biblical record. That secular information deals with Babylonian history and culture and has little relevance to biblical history or culture for the purposes of chronology. However, where there are synchronisms between biblical record and the Babylonians then that demands attention but such are very rare and are in fact use either to establish a pivotal date or confirm data in the biblical record.

    The cunieform documents are a 'mixed bag' and should be marked in big red letters HANDLE WITH CARE or USE RESPONSIBLY because scholars apart from the celebrated ones find that these secular records produce different results, interpretations and chronologies. The big problem with these documents is that the data conflicts with scripture and cannot be harmonized despite the best efforts of the Jonsson hypothesis. the stumbling block is the biblical 'seventy years'.

    The business tablets have their own set of problems and are a object of interest and curiousity to the celebrated WTscholars but the foresaid comments equally applies.

    scholar JW

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