by 5thGeneration 16 Replies latest jw friends
How do the elders REALLY deal with cong. members with drinking problems.
I find that I have been drinking far too much and am trying to cut WAY down. http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/Controversies/1116633948.html
I am seriously wondering how the elders deal with this if you go to them for help. Will they monitor you like hawks? If you relasp could you be DFd?
Seems it's an area you don't want to be honest about. Never been an elder so I don't know.
Any one with practical experience in this?
I would imagine that elders would use the bible to disfellowship a person with a drinking problem, just like they would disfellowship a person who fornicates regularly.
Probably, they would tell the disfellowshipped alcoholic person to clean up their act, and then get reinstated.
Here's how alcohol is handled by elders in Gordon, Nebraska, USA.
http://www.freeminds.org/buss/argus_leader.htm
Argus Leader, Sioux Falls, South Dakota
Tuesday, Jan. 23, 1996
Page 1
By CARSON WALKER
Argus Leader Staff
Deon Barlow of Sioux Falls, 38, said she was a Jehovah's Witness for only 1 1/2 years. She was recruited by a woman who came to her door "and caught me at a vulnerable time in my life." Barlow said she was abusing alcohol and her ex-husband was abusing her. She divorced, went into alcohol treatment, got the job Jehovah's Witnesses wanted her to -- working for them -- and went door-to-door 60 hours a month. When Barlow found out her brother was dying of AIDS, she asked to visit him. A church elder consented but frowned on it.
"My brother was detestable in God's eyes because he was gay," she said she was told. "So when I saw him, I treated him like dirt. To this day I regret that." Her brother has since died.
When she returned home, the woman who had recruited her found her drinking. The elders ruled the alcohol use and the visit to her brother were evidence enough to disfellowship her.
When contacted by telephone, the leader of Kingdom Hall in Gordon, Neb., where Barlow lived at the time, said he was not interested in talking and hung up.
It seems (from what I have noticed, and from reading others' experiences) that how the Elders™ handle a drinking problem depends on your status in the congregation.
For instance, I have heard of Sisters™ being DFd, not for their alcoholism, but for joining Alcoholics Anonymous and thus Bringing Reproach on Jehovah™.
I have heard of Brothers™ - one of whom was a well-known Elder™ with huge amounts of responsibility in the Organization™ who was known to drink heavily on a regular basis. He was also known to have a violent temper and was physically abusive with his children and grandchildren. He was In Good Standing™ until the day he died.
have heard of Brothers™ - one of whom was a well-known Elder™ with huge amounts of responsibility in the Organization™ who was known to drink heavily on a regular basis. He was also known to have a violent temper and was physically abusive with his wife
that describes John Burgoise to a tee....I worked for him many summers and he was even the study conductor for all that baptism crap I had to go through...He ate cake and beer for breakfast and was a nototious wife beater. I am quite sure though many have heard his "stirring" oratories at one convention or another. A fine upstanding brother indeed. If you need help I am thinking you won't find it there. I wager what you will find is posturing on their behalf as Scully mentions dealing with you as one who has or might "brought reproach on Jehovah."
The problem is, how do you define "heavy" drinking. Different people have differnt tollerance levels. Actually the heaviest drinkers are probably the best at hiding it. When it does become known to the elders, I believe in most parts of world they will give you a few warnings before DF.
When I was in my early twenties a story circulated that I had drunk 5 pints at a pub. I was given a very brief slap on the wrist at the hall, I think they were more concerned about me telling everyone I had drunk 5 pints than the actual doing of it. In actual fact, although that was a lot to drink for me back then, nowadays I would wonder what all the fuss was about.
My dad who happens to be an elder and the PO drinks every day. Although he says he never gets drunk, he can't go without it for more than two days otherwise he gets the shakes.
My mother has called the elders on him and they have never done a damn thing. So I agree with Scully that your status in the hall designates how you will be treated.
Purz
Having served as an elder, I will share my experience. For some reason, among all the potential crimes, heavy alcohol use is something fairly well tolerated in the organization. Even though the bible lists "drunkards" right along with "fornicators," you can bet your sweet bippy the latter is given enormously greater scrutiny than the former.
I think the issues are these...
-The lines between drinker, heavy drinker and drunkard are not always obvious. Elders, who usually drink a bit themselves, are often hesitant to make such a call.
-Has a person's drinking become a substantive issue in the congregation? If the local friends seem relatively unconcerned about it, generally the body won't do anything.
-Is there an unusually Pharisaical elder involved? If so, all bets are off, and anything can happen.
I think much of the toleration comes--not only from elders but congregation members--who themselves enjoy drinking. It's not necessarily verbalized, but I think people feel, "It's not easy being one of Jehovah's Witnesses. We give up so much and are under so much pressure. At least we get to drink!" Any publisher in the position to turn in someone for drunkenness usually does not, thinking that at one time or another they themselves have been just as (ahem) schwilly. And elders? Look, many of them drink quite a lot. And while I'm not suggesting that they are predominately alcoholics, I do think many of them are--and many more are not far from it. Still others are surrounded by these ones--their good friends. Because you yourself are party to a fair amount of boozing, you tend to overlook "heavy drinking" a bit--in most situations.
Yes, there are exceptions, and, yes, officially "drunkenness" is grounds for disfellowshipping--just as fornication is. But a person involved with fornication will be given extraordinarily greater scrutiny than one who got drunk at a Witness gathering. To be found "repentant" of fornication is not easy. To be found repentant of occasions of drunkenness is really easy--unless there are accompanying circumstances.
Have you ever wondered what would make the WTS COLLASPE? The day the WT prints a "new light" article, which condems ALL alcohol USE!
Have you ever wondered what would make the WTS COLLASPE? The day the WT prints a "new light" article, which condems ALL alcohol USE!
No - you would just get a huge number of people claim they are partakers of the wine at the memorial.
