The pope's cousin is a JW

by loosie 45 Replies latest social current

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    Yeah all that might be what happened at a stretch, it’s not impossible. Or she could simply be the cousin of the pope, which is a perfectly ordinary and everyday thing to happen in this world. Given the number of JWs (around 1 in 400 in Christian countries) it’s reasonably likely that one or other pope has had a JW relative. Why not this one? Why are you so determined that it could not possibly be true? It’s not like she was claiming something incredible or supernatural, like her cat turned into a dog, or her wine turned into blood.

    As far as I can remember Austrians were expecting that Cardinal Schönborn might become pope and were a bit disappointed he was apparently disqualified because of scandals. I only heard about Ratzinger, after he was elected, from commentators who said it was a shock that such a traditionalist was elected. Some treated it as the worst possible outcome given his history. I remember journalist Christina Odone was visibly shaken at the result and they had good fun with Ratzinger (“eyes of a killer”) on the comedy programme Have I Got News For You.

    All of which is completely beside the point, it’s really getting into the weeds and has next to nothing to do with the veracity of the story. I suspect you argue just for the sake of it and AI of course has limitless energy and resources to spew out plausible sounding but patently ridiculous and tangential arguments.

  • aqwsed12345
    aqwsed12345
    @slimboyfat

    The core misunderstanding in your message is a conflation of possibility with plausibility—and in historical or genealogical claims, those are not the same thing. Of course it’s not physically impossible that a pope had a Jehovah’s Witness relative; people convert, families fracture, strange things happen. But a story being theoretically possible isn’t the same as it being evidenced. That’s the whole point. What matters here is not whether such a relationship could ever occur somewhere, sometime—but whether it happened in this specific case. And on that count, there is simply no documented support.

    To say “she could simply be the cousin of the Pope” is to gloss over the fact that being someone’s first/second cousin is not a general impression or vibe—it’s a very specific biological relationship, requiring shared great-grandparents. We know who Pope Benedict’s great-grandparents were. We know who Stefanie Brzakovic’s great-grandparents were. They’re not the same people. Not even close. This isn’t speculation; it’s documented in parish records, family trees, and multiple independent genealogical sources. That’s why serious inquiry rules the claim out—not because it’s outlandish in the abstract, but because it’s untrue in the concrete.

    And let’s not pretend this was treated like just another ordinary claim. She didn’t say, “I think we might be distantly related.” She said the Pope was her cousin, that he called her personally, and that he praised her JW evangelism—an anecdote conveniently mirroring decades-old JW propaganda narratives. This isn’t a harmless quirk; it’s a perfect faith-affirming tale, told without evidence, that contradicts every available genealogical fact and cultural pattern. That raises red flags.

    Your suggestion that critics are “determined” to deny it says more about your stance than theirs. Critical inquiry doesn’t start from emotional investment—it starts from what can be proven. The burden of proof lies with the person making the claim. No one is “determined” that this couldn’t possibly be true. What we are saying—quite clearly—is that there is no evidence that it is true. And when the only thing sustaining the story is hearsay, nostalgia, and a circular trail of newspaper echoes, that’s not evidence. It’s folklore.

    You also pivot into an odd digression about Ratzinger’s election, as if public perception or Austrian disappointment somehow bolsters the cousin story. It doesn’t. The fact that Christina Odone or British comedians were surprised by Benedict’s election has zero bearing on the veracity of a woman’s family anecdote in Australia. That portion of your message is an excellent illustration of misdirection—shifting the focus from whether the claim is true to how some people felt about an unrelated event. That isn’t critical thinking; it’s emotional buffering.

    And finally, your swipe at AI “spewing plausible sounding but patently ridiculous arguments” is ironic—because that’s exactly what this anecdote is. It sounds charming and vaguely plausible to someone not familiar with the geography, naming customs, or genealogical details of rural Bavaria—but it collapses instantly under scrutiny. That’s not the AI’s fault. It’s the strength of rigorous reasoning over feel-good stories.

    If we care about truth, sincerity isn’t enough. Sentimental stories must still pass the test of evidence. And this one simply doesn’t.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    Since you don’t seem to know that a woman’s married name has nothing to do with her ancestry, or that the number of siblings a person has has no bearing on the number cousins their grandchildren will have (do you even read the ChatGPT guff before posting it?) forgive me if I don’t follow your latest nicely formatted, and plausible sounding, logical goop that your latest AI prompts have thrown up in seconds.

  • vienne
    vienne

    aqw if you could be more concise, less OCD and hide your aspergers syndrome a bit more, you wouldn't seem quite so stupid. Give it a rest. We all know your opinion. Prolonging this 'discussion' is nonsense. Whom exactly do you wish to persuade? And why? Do you think Slim will change his mind? Aside from being a heck of a lot smarter than you are, he is poking your nose and leading you along. Wake up, and stop it.

  • aqwsed12345
    aqwsed12345
    @vienne

    "...being a heck of a lot smarter than you are..." - ROTFL. I've debated with him many times, I've never heard any independent thoughts or constructive criticism from him, other than trumping Christian orthodoxy with various fashionable modernist so-called "authorities," saying "if e-v-e-n Dr. PhD -berg/-stein/-witz said this and that, who are you, aqwsed12345, to argue with them, huh?" And he just keeps saying nothing just bullying me about whether it's AI or not AI. Man, focus on the content, on the merits (and asolutely nothing else), refute it, or if you cannot, then shut up.

    "...he is poking your nose and leading you along." - Then he's the same shitty bully as those who mocked Thomas Aquinas, I'm not ashamed to be like him.

    He was known for his child-like innocence. “Oh! Thomas, look! There are flying pigs outside!” two friars declared, pointing frantically to the window. Thomas, falling for their practical joke, bounded to the window to see this incredible anomaly of nature. Alas, the feathered pigs were nowhere to be found, and Thomas turned to see his brothers succumb to fits of laughter. “I would rather believe that pigs can fly,” Thomas declared, “than believe that my brethren could lie.”
  • vienne
    vienne

    aq, silly.

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