Hi Everyone,
I think that Terry's answer to his own question about 'defining evil' is incorrect. You do not even need to define evil when you have an absolute truth to go by.
You can go through a lot of speculation in order to define evil. It is the opposite of good, or even better, the opposite of best. I see his message is preached with the slant: believing in any higher power is NOT the way to live your life. I believe that this is an attempt to not be accountable: If there is no 'higher power', then 'Terry' is accountable to no one, nor is anyone else accountable! If there is no absolute truth then there are no bounds to evil, nor any grounds to rein it in!
All that you have to do is examine the life of Christ and His teachings if you want a solid and consistent moral and ethical guideline. Do not mistake the depravity inherent in man (Christian or 'claimed Christian'), as an excuse to discount the teachings of our Lord.
Man cannot and will not do any real 'good' on his own: he doesn’t have to be coerced by his society, his ‘religion’ (not a real relationship with God Himself), his peers, his family, his own selfishness and pride. This idea that if man just 'had the right social environment his goodness would then surface' is a crock. EVERY form of government or social order that has emerged during the 'age of enlightenment' has been an abject failure (I include democracy and capitalism in that statement).
The fatal flaw is in man himself: he seeks to elevate 'self' to Godhood above all else. That is the nature of man, there is no one 'good', except by comparison to one who is thought of as 'worse' (in each one's mind!). All are corrupt or corruptible. We all 'kill, maim, lust and destroy' in our hearts! You name any ferociously evil act or acts. Each one of us is capable of that kind of crime against humanity.
Secularists have killed hundreds of millions of people in the last century alone, Communism bears the weight of over 200 million, its cousin, National Socialism killed six million Jews alone. Even the Romans were not of this level of cruelty, nor were the inquisitors, nor even the Islamists. When good does not stand against evil, evil will always win. The Nazis leaders did not have to do the ‘dirty work’ that they caused, they had the common man do that work. With the idea that human beings are merely ‘higher evolved animals’, we gave man the means to ethically (in his own mind, "Just doing my job") to justify the most extreme butchery. We see that today in the shrill voices of NARAL and even in the other less extreme supporters of 'abortion on demand'.
I want to note this one possible exception: our Judeo-Christian civilization has freed hundreds of millions from tyranny, punished and destroyed truly evil governments and their leaders, brought millions out of poverty and freed just as many from superstition and ignorance. Has this entity been above reproach? Certainly not. Has it come the closest to actually benefiting mankind? Absolutely!
Rex
Why 'defining evil' is fruitless
by Shining One 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Shining One
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tetrapod.sapien
i feel sorry for you rex.
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DannyBloem
The problem is that there is no absolute truth even for christians.
Gods laws changed all over the years.
1) Eating: First no meat at all, then meat but no pigs etc, than all meat
2) Sex: First sleeping with many woman ok (salomon for example), then out of the question.
3) Slavery: slavery ok, in the whole bible. Is this an absolute truth?
4) Killing: When to kill and when not to kill? If God tells us we can kill. To punish someone we can kill? Our enemies we can kill?
So please tell me where and how can I find this absolute truth? Tell me exactly what is this absolute truth!
Danny
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misspeaches
Damn. I didn't even want to define evil in the first place!
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Shining One
Hi Danny!
>The problem is that there is no absolute truth even for Christians. Gods laws changed all over the years.1) Eating: First no meat at all, then meat but no pigs etc, than all meat
You are speaking of dietary laws which served a purpose in each dispensation, context, context, and context! These laws were used during (and before) the old Law Covenant and were for Jews, never for Christians. This was strictly a matter of obedience in some cases and in others it was for reasons related to health in a world where no standards were in place…
>2) Sex: First sleeping with many woman ok (salomon for example), then out of the question.
Old Testament practices were just that, God’s people have never been perfect. In fact, if you look at the disastrous consequences of this practice then you see why only God himself could grant this for specific purposes and those were exceptional. By the time that Paul was writing there was no question that polygamy was wrong. You have to remember that scripture was still being revealed through the ages (dispensations) and was not completed till the later part of the First Century.
>3) Slavery: slavery ok, in the whole bible. Is this an absolute truth?
Context, context, context. Bible writer’s first goal was not to abolish slavery; in fact it had some usefulness in the civilizations at the time. It was a grievous error in context that let man continue this practice long after the New Covenant brought with it the Church Age.
>4) Killing: When to kill and when not to kill? If God tells us we can kill. To punish someone we can kill? Our enemies we can kill?
God handles his own wrath, “Vengeance is mine”. God used nations to bring judgment upon other nations and He still does! We do not have authority to kill as individuals, the ‘higher powers’ do have this obligation to protect society from those who would take it upon themselves to kill others!
How far do you take ‘love thy neighbor’? If you see a person being assaulted should you not do something to stop it? If you see your community being threatened by an outside force, should you not do something (collectively) to stop it? If your country is threatened, if a people can be freed by your nation (Iraq for example), should you not do so?
Should you not see to the execution of some person who is so far gone as to be a threat to anyone in a peaceful society? You have got to get over this notion that God is somehow bound by the limited interpretation that the cults use. God has divine providence: Satan is ‘God’s ape’ as Martin Luther said; even he has to ask God’s permission to test mankind! Don’t do as they do and mistake anthropomorphisms as some evidence that God will is ever thwarted nor is He surprised, nor does He ignore the future…
>So please tell me where and how can I find this absolute truth? Tell me exactly what is this absolute truth!
Pontius Pilate asked the same thing and he was looking the personification of TRUTH right in the face.
Rex -
RevFrank
Well DANNYBLOEM, it sure does sound confusing....but then again in the old text we see Jehovah act under civil law according to His word. We, today, have civil law.....
Yet as move to see the New Testament or hebrew scriptures, we move into grace.
We need to realize that when Jehovah's authority was brought into question by Satan, we have to sit back to observe what's taking place. It all deals with authority.
Plus The Father rose Jesus at resurrection...We needed to see and understand that we may suffer under Satan's rule, yet only God could raise the dead...forgive sin..cure the sick and make man perfect. Satan may make the attempt to raise someone from the dead, yet it will fail....Satan may cure a few things, but it will fail...As for perfection....never happen. And since Satan is so full of himself, he actually thinks he'll win.
As for death...it's only a temporary condition..Death is not fatal to God. Death's actually condition is the end of pain and suffering. For those who created pain and suffering..when they die pain and suffering only begins. Yet God knows the heart of man. That's why He's the Judge..perfect judgement. We have no idea what is perfection, so we wait.
What is evil? evil is the opposit of good.
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sonnyboy
Judeo-Christian civilization has freed hundreds of millions from tyranny, punished and destroyed truly evil governments and their leaders, brought millions out of poverty and freed just as many from superstition and ignorance.
Are you daft? That must be the most ridiculous thing I've heard anyone say on this forum.
Judeo-Christian civilization (at those which claimed to be exclusively Christian) have enslaved, committed genocide upon, forced superstition and ignorance upon, and forced into poverty countless peoples. It is by no means an exception to anything.
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daystar
If there is no 'higher power', then 'Terry' is accountable to no one, nor is anyone else accountable! If there is no absolute truth then there are no bounds to evil, nor any grounds to rein it in!
Scary isn't it. Some see the need that there be some Authority to hold one accountable like little children. Others, as adults, hold themselves accountable for their own actions. It's about growing up. Just because you no longer live in your parents' house, does not necessarily mean you're going to become evil. This presumes that we are innately "evil" and cannot help ourselves but to succumb to "evil" without some authority holding the penalty of death over our heads.
I want to note this one possible exception: our Judeo-Christian civilization has freed hundreds of millions from tyranny, punished and destroyed truly evil governments and their leaders, brought millions out of poverty and freed just as many from superstition and ignorance. Has this entity been above reproach? Certainly not. Has it come the closest to actually benefiting mankind? Absolutely!
You will agree that the Judeo-Christian civilization is just about as guilty of the massacre of millions as it is all the positive influences you mention above, perhaps moreso. You also make the assumption that "secularists" are uninfluenced by religiousity. We can see plainly that this is not true simply in the example of G.W. Bush.
I don't want to get into it with you really, shining one. After all, our handles here refer to the same being, right? Lucifer, the Light Bearer, the Illuminated One, the Morning Star, Daystar, Shining One...
I sometimes question your motive for posting such things here, Shining One. One would think Lucifer's namesake would be trying to lead sheep away from God's organization and towards atheism, etc. You seem to be doing the opposite... hmmm...
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Shining One
Sonnyboy,
If you bothered to look up the statistics that I presented you would see that I am right. Are you just like the rest of the ant-God bunch here? Are you so dogmatic in belief of the assertions of agnostics and pagans that you will not even look at both sides of the issue?
Rex -
Shining One
Hi Daystar,
I like the sense of irony my handle signifies!
Rex