by ithinkisee 20 Replies latest members private
ITIS,
I have to say that I'll second Nathan's idea on watching that DVD. When I watched it this week, you were one of the first people I thought of...that your wife would feel safe watching it because it's not about JWs. It's about another religion...but the similar "don't ask questions/shunning" concept was eerily similar. I have a copy I can send you if you'd like.
Andi
Bible Students also teach about a paradise earth. A comprehensive brochure on salvation can be found here: http://www.bibletoday.com/Saved/intro.htm -- The last chapter concerning "Two Days of Salvation" provides specific details on their beliefs about the earth.
My advice is to stay clear of doctrinal debates. Doctrine is interpretation and interpretation is formed through bias. Never argue anything. The less you come accross as interested in doctrine the better. That can't be stressed enough. She must see the love you have for her and the joy you have for life. She will be puzzled and perhaps begin asking the questions she is secreting in her heart. When she does be casual and respond by slowly asking her questions so as to learn her real feelings and so that she will not feel she is being preached at.
Ithink: its time to close the deal.
Based on what you and your wife have said you are now in the same place religiously.
When someone askes "what about Paradise on earth?" "what about the FDS?" "what about an earthly organization?" like this they are already deconstructing.
She may not be looking for answers, she may be fishing to know if its all right to ask these questions.
The Org, FDS and Paradise are the huge holes in her "hope" if she commits emotionally to what she already knows.
It's OK to accept that "I don't know", but very difficult for the JW in her.
Join her in this quest and raise your kids with strong open minds. Congradulations!
ithink,
Thanks so much for sharing. I'm sure you are helping not only your own family!
Bryan
Have You Seen My Mother
Try reading the gospel of John - preferably not the NWT. Look for John's opinion of organization there. All references to 'truth' are referring to Jesus. Rather than doctrine, try to get the focus on Jesus vs Organization. It helped me a great deal in the beginning. Refocus on what Christianity is - rather than on what one believes. Doctrine might be a part of it later - perhaps much later.
Jeff
We went to our first meeting since I broke the news to my wife.
It was interesting. The WT was lots of stuff about obedience and doing more. Which was something she and I had discussed a lot.
Additionally, we had discussed quite a bit about how the Society fills the mind with stuff about paradise, reads a bunch of scriptures from John and Revelation that talk about everlasting life, and then talk more about paradise - but none of the scriptures they read specifically say paradise.
So what did the speaker at the Public Talk do yesterday? He started in about the paradise hope, had the audience turn to Revelation 7 and he skipped around on a few verses in there and "no more tears" etc. Then he summed up with more about the paradise hope. The guy couldn't have done a more perfect job of presenting a flawed argument.
My wife was still reading Revelation Chapter 7 in context for about 10 minutes afterward.
-ithinkisee
ithinkisee I've been reading with great interest all your threads regarding this situation with your wife and boy it's really getting exciting I love the approach you are taking with her; letting her do her own research so she can come to her own (IMHO logical) conclusion about the WTS.
Agreed. Thank you so much for sharing all this with us, its riveting.
I am amazed at your patience and kindness in delivering this difficult message to your wife in such a sensitive and understanding way.
It seems like all the right things are happening - shes examining things, thinking, reading, analysing. You are not forcing any conclusions on her, but she is heading in the right direction and forming her own conclusions.
I think its a majorly important point that she sees she cant talk to any elders about this without being castigated. I shows them up for the narrow minded unreasonable people they are. After all, her questions are genuine and reasonable, why shouldnt she be able to discuss them with the 'qualified men'? (gag).
Every time you go to a meeting now, she will be really thinking about what is being said from the platform and analysing it with a more open mind than she has ever had before.
It may take months and months and months before she is able to accept that they are wrong, but I am sure she will eventually overcome that blind loyalty and see things as clearly as you do.
I am with you in spirit and in truth!
Have you read "In Search of Christian Freedom" by Ray Franz yet? Do you think you could get her to read CoC?
GBL
I agree witht he post about CoC. I'm trying to convince my wife that it's OK to read it. I loaned my copy to her brother, who is disfellowshipped (but we still associate with him). He gets madder and madder as he reads it. The book was so moving to me, and wonderfully written. I want my wife to read it because there's really no way to discredit what Franz says. Every claim he makes, he can back up with official WTS letters or publication quotes. Yet he's never bitter or judgmental in his conclusions. It's a real eye-opener to any JW in our position.
Please keep up the posts! On a side note, I told my wife about your situation and she wanted to know how your wife responded. It was almost as if she needed validation that it was ok to talk about these things, and if your wife could so could she. I've actually gotten her to sit down and read your posts, and it has helped some what. Just thought you'd like to know that you're not just helping your own family, but other families as well!
