Revelation 22:12-13, who spoke it ? Jesus or Jehovah?

by Tyre 5 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Tyre

    WT teach that Jesus is Jehovah

    • 1908: Jesus
    • 1955: Jesus
    • AUG. 1978: Jehovah
    • OCT. 1978: Jesus
    • Revelation book pg. 316: Jehovah
    • Revelation book pg 319: Jesus

    Jesus, Jesus, Jehovah, Jesus, Jehovah, Jesus...

    Sounds like Jesus is Jehovah!

    does anyone have a scan materials from WT above?

    Thank you in advance.

  • Cygnus

    Tyre, how about doing your own research instead of pasting what's on some anti-JW website?


    re chap. 44 p. 316 Revelation and You ***

    Jehovah, the King of eternity, now addresses readers of Revelation for the last time in the prophecy, saying: "Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to render to each one as his work is. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. Happy are those who wash their robes, that the authority to go to the trees of life may be theirs and that they may gain entrance into the city by its gates. Outside are the dogs and those who practice spiritism and the fornicators and the murderers and the idolaters and everyone liking and carrying on a lie."—Revelation 22:12-15 7 Once again, Jehovah God emphasizes his eternal sovereignty and the fact that what he first purposes he will at last perform. He is "coming quickly" to execute judgment and will reward those earnestly seeking him. (Hebrews 11:6)


    re chap. 44 p. 319 Revelation and You ***


    Jesus now adds a final word of encouragement: "He that bears witness of these things says, ‘Yes; I am coming quickly.’" (Revelation 22:20a) Jesus is "the faithful and true witness." (Revelation 3:14) If he bears witness to the visions of Revelation, they must be true. Both he and Jehovah God himself repeatedly stress the fact that they are coming "quickly," or soon, Jesus here saying that for the fifth time. (Revelation 2:16; 3:11; 22:7, 12, 20) The "coming" is to execute judgment on the great harlot, the political "kings" and all others who oppose "the kingdom of our Lord [Jehovah] and of his Christ."—Revelation 11:15; 16:14, 16; 17:1, 12-14.

    How do those quotes prove that the WT "teaches that Jesus is Jehovah"?

    And, are those the two Revelation Climax book quotes you refer to? Sorry but I don't feel like paging through the other Watchtower material to find whatever you're looking for. Maybe you could at least come up with a publications monthly date and better yet page #'s for those WT magazines, or books.

  • jwfacts

    The point you make is a good one. The WTS is confused as to how these verses apply to. The terms "i am coming" and "first and last" both are applied in the bible sometimes to Jehovah and sometimes to Jesus. The WTS states that this does not indicate a trinity. However they never want to admit that Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega. Virtually all other religions understand the context to imply that Jesus is the one referred to as coming and it is also Jesus that is referred to as the Alpha Omega. This is the logical reading of the text.

    The WTS seems to have moved back and forth as to whether in Rev 22 'i am coming' refers to Jesus or Jehovah.

    The quote from 1978 I have taked off the WTS CD. *** w78 10/1 p. 15 “Keep on the Watch” *** 6 Also, in his final revelation concerning “the things that must shortly take place,” Jesus again stresses the suddenness with which he comes: “I am coming to you quickly . . . I am coming quickly. Keep on holding fast what you have.”—Rev. 2:16; 3:11. “Look! I am coming quickly. . . . Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me. . . . Yes; I am coming quickly.” (Rev. 22:7, 12, 20)

    *** g78 8/22 p. 28 Who Is “the Alpha and the Omega”? *** Since the context does not necessitate our attributing the words of Revelation 22:12, 13 either to the angel or to Jesus, they could have originated with another speaker. Consistent with the rest of the book of Revelation, “the Alpha and the Omega” must be the Almighty God. He is the One who comes in the capacity of a judge to reward and to punish individuals according to their works.

    The following shows how confusing the Witness understanding of Revelation 22 becomes;

    *** it-1 p. 81 Alpha and Omega *** The final occurrence of the title is at Revelation 22:13, which states: “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” It is evident that a number of persons are represented as speaking in this chapter of Revelation; verses 8 and 9 show that the angel spoke to John, verse 16 obviously applies to Jesus, the first part of verse 17 is credited to “the spirit and the bride,” and the one speaking in the latter part of verse 20 is manifestly John himself. “The Alpha and the Omega” of verses 12-15, therefore, may properly be identified as the same one who bears the title in the other two occurrences: Jehovah God. The expression, “Look! I am coming quickly,” in verse 12, does not require that these aforementioned verses apply to Jesus, inasmuch as God also speaks of himself as “coming” to execute judgment. (Compare Isa 26:21.) Malachi 3:1-6 speaks of a joint coming for judgment on the part of Jehovah and his “messenger of the covenant.”

  • Ticker

    I went into detail on this very topic on another recent topic of mine but Im not sure how to post a link. You can look it up if like. I dont have the qouted material you are mentioning though but I researched the topic myself in great detail about a year ago.


  • Tyre

    thank you so much, if you have a scan materials I would be apreciate.

    here is the details

  • LittleToe

    If I recall, Leo posted on this subject.

    The NWT Translation committee's excessive use of parenthesis is amazing, especially given that they weren't available in Greek.

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