RUSSEL MEETS RUTHERFORD: a fantasy conversation

by Terry 48 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Terry
    Terry
    Just to quibble about two minor things....Russell did not ever expect the end to come in 1874 (this was held by his second Adventist forbearers), but accepted Barbour's rationalization that Christ became invisibly present that year



    Russell, in THE TIME IS AT HAND, gave a bogus chronology that pre-echoed what Freddy Franz would later do concerning the 6,000 years of human existence coming to a close. In Russell's case he picked 1873 as the end point. Franz, of course, selected 1975. Both men used this crackpot notion to imply, suggest and predict that Christ would begin his reign at that point.

    "The Scriptures show that the Second Presence (of the Lord) was due in 1874...this prove shows that the Lord has been present since 1874."

    In regard to the Great Disappointment, Russell had a very odd opinion about it. He stated that "Without a doubt the hand of the Lord was in it."

    In THE BATTLE OF ARMAGEDDON, Russell states clearly: "Our Lord, the Appointed King, is now present, since October 1874 A.D."

    And I don't believe Beth Sarim was in existence yet in 1925

    Rutherford purchased the lots in 1926. I don't think it was completed until 1928. I thought about that on my way to work today; that I should have maybe said 1928. I think I'll try and go back and edit that in now. Thanks for the head's up.

    T.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    In particular, I was responding to the following statement:

    "Now Pastor, it doesn't really matter much that you got them all excited for nothing---I mean, Armageddon didn't come in 1874, did it? You thought it would and even promised God told you it would--don't deny it! Do you know what year it is now?"

    This is specifically that Armageddon would come in 1874, not that Christ became present or 6,000 years would end in 1874. The Millenium has dawned, but the distress of Armageddon would not begin until the harvest is underway and it would intensify until 1914.

    I think your statement works just as well if "1914" replaces "1874".

  • Terry
    Terry
    This is specifically that Armageddon would come in 1874, not that Christ became present or 6,000 years would end in 1874. The Millenium has dawned, but the distress of Armageddon would not begin until the harvest is underway and it would intensify until 1914.

    I think your statement works just as well if "1914" replaces "1874".





    The Watchtower Society (aka FDS) right now has your viewpoint when it references Russell in its publications. But, what exactly were Russell's expectations?

    I have in front of me a splendid compilation of quotations which Randy Watters had the genius to assemble under the title: SPIRITUAL FOOD AT THE PROPER TIME.

    Let's go through it and figure this out together. It should be fun.

    (Bold black headers are publication titles, often included in Studies in the Scriptures.)

    THY KINGDOM COME:

    "Reckoning from A.D.539 the 1290 symbolic days ended in 1829...Thus it will be seen that the separating work of the Miller movement had its beginning at the time foretold-at the end of the 1290 days, 1829". What is special about this quote is that it makes William Miller a fulfiller of prophecy simply by virtue of his getting people's attention centered on the Second Coming! Accuracy of prediction plays no part in arousing Russell's disdain or disapproval!

    BATTLE OF ARMAGEDDON:

    1833: Our Lord's words found a fulfilment (though not their complete and only fulfilment, as we shall see later) in the wonderful meteroric showers of the early morning of Nov. 12,1833. Those inclined to quibble by urging that 'the fixed stars did not fall' are reminded that our Lord said nothing about fixed stars falling, and that fixed stars could not fall: their falling would prove they are not fixed." This is typical Watchtower logic, is it not? And, shameless pointing to an irrelevent event while attaching a bible significance for purposes of pretending prophecy is at hand.

    DIVINE PLAN OF THE AGES:

    1872: "THERE ARE EVIDENCES THAT- Six thousand years from Adam ended in A.D. 1872."

    THE TIME IS AT HAND:

    "For be it distinctly noticed that if the Chronology be altered but one year, more or less--if we add one year, say to the period of the Kings or the Judges, or if we make it one year less--it would spoil the parallelism."


    1873: "The Bible chronology herein presented shows that the six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th Day, the 1000 years of CHRIST'S REIGN, began in 1873."

    Huh? The first sentence makes mush out of the second sentence...doesn't it? Is it 1872 or is it 1873?

    1874: "The next chapter will present Bible evidence that 1874 A.D. was the exact date of the beginning of the 'Times of Restitution,' and hence of our Lord's return."

    Oh, dear! Now which is it? 1872/1873/or 1874??? One year more or less would SPOIL the parallelism? My head is spinning.

    THE NEXT SENTENCE IS OF SPECIAL NOTE. PLEASE READ IT CAREFULLY!

    THY KINGDOM COME:

    "THE LORD DID NOT COME IN 1844, AND THE WORLD WAS NOT BURNED UP WITH FIRE...this was a great disappointment to those 'holy people' who had so confidently looked for Christ (Michael) then to appear and to exalt them with him in power and glory. But, notwithstanding the disappointment, [Miller's] movement had its designed effects- of awakening an interest in the subject of the Lord's coming, and of casting reproach upon the subject by reason of mistaken expectations. We say designed effects because without a doubt the hand of the Lord was in it."

    I personally find this statement to be stunning; but, at the same time revealing of the expectation attched to the Return of Christ.

    Russell took over, as it were, from Miller (and other Adventists) in rescuing the CONCEPT while smoothing out the disappointments by reasonable parallels in scripture. The main task set for Charles Russell would be explaining WHY DESTRUCTION had not happened if Christ really was back in office as King! The two ideas were attached like Siamese twins.

    Russell tried to eat his cake and have it too! C.T. Russell taught that 1874 marked "the start of the Battle of Armageddon". His burden was stretching the concept of Armageddon into a prolonged period in which judgement itself by Christ would include separating sheep from goats by faithful christians before the real fiery destruction commenced.

    This is where Bible parallelism was too weak and he had to resort to props like the Great Pyramid for support.

    Modern day Watchtower explanations have gone back again and again to this time period to chip splinters off the multitudes of contradictory pronouncements to make them seem more reasonable and believeable.

    But, they can't get past the iron-clad certainty by C.T.Russell that he was 100% right. Such as this quote:

    "It is on the basis of such and so many correspondencies-in accordance with the SOUNDEST LAWS KNOW TO SCIENCE- that we AFFIRM that--Scripturally, scientifically, and historically, present-truth chronology is correct BEYOND DOUBT. Its reliability has been abundantly confirmed by the dates and events of 1874...Present-truth chronology is a SECURE BASIS on which the consecrated child of God may endeavor to search out things to come." Mind you, this was even reprinted in the Watchtower of June 15 1922 on page 187.

    How do we get around this and still not look like a crackpot?

    One more subtle point well worth noting.

    1876: "For forty years the Lord has been present, feeding those who have been hungering and thirsting for righteousness. For forty years Pastor Russell-that faithful servent of the Lord-has set forth clear and unmistakable evidence of the presence of the Master. he nailed the banner of Christ's presence on the title page of the Watch Tower; and it shall never come down until the kingdom is known on the earth." Watchtower Dec 15 1916.

    The above banner came down in 1939! Now the Watchtower banner only claims 'Announcing Jehovah's kingdom'. Jesus was demoted!

    One of Russell's explanations for no destruction--yet--was that God's favor was being removed from all the Churches of Christendom and being placed on the church which was announcing his son's kingdom presence. Yet, ironically, this same explanation had to be moved up in the calendar from 1874 to an embarassing 40 years later!

    It is no wonder everybody can honestly be confused about what Russell stood for, what he believed, what he preached and where he drew the line on fudging the "facts" to suit his ever moving goal line. C.T. Russell was no hero to pure worship; he was intellectually dishonest. His tactics were purely political. He said what he had to say to rescue his position. It is called HUBRIS! (Excessive pride displayed by a character and often taking the form of a boastful comparison of the self to the divine, the gods, or other higher powers.)

    The Watchtower today has a huge task set before it when it comes to explaining this period of their history. They can't actually come out and describe the hundreds of flat out erroneous predictions which were surrounded in absolute certainty. These are indefensible. 7th day Adventists made the same error but stuck to the one date without moving it. At least they were consistent.

    So, modern revisionists must step back (a giant step) and become vague and conceptual rather than clearly factual. Russell is described as a sincere and eager Bible student who pointed the way to interest in Christ's second presence while being a bit off on his exact pinpoint calculations. Do you see the irony here? Russell had done the same thing with the embarassment of William Miller!

    IF JEHOVAH CHOSE C.T. RUSSELL for his approval---on what basis? Accuracy? Humility? Russell was all over the place on chronology and always wrong. Russell was never less than certain, especially when wrong. This is how Jehovah chooses a faithful and DISCREET slave?

    There is really no explanation feasible and believeable.

  • Balsam
    Balsam
    Great post Terry,

    Awesome story, your one smart dude. I have reciently gotten the studies in the scriptures and readying the words of Russell which I never did all those years I was a JW. Your post about his view of dates is something isn't it? I can't help but wonder how Bible Students today try to wrap their mind around trying to adopt Russell teachings because the dates are so wrong and bogus. It really shows the stretch people will go to in order to make the scriptures say what they want it to say. I believe Russell started out sincere, but quickly was ate up by the power he had over the rank & file. And of course Rutherford was just a real ogar and cared about no one but himself.

    Russell fully believed in the Univeral Salvation of all mankind though, and can't quite figure why Rutherford had everyone destroyed at Armageddon. Rutherford changed everything into a power trip.

    Balsam

  • willyloman
    willyloman
    Our Lord's words found a fulfilment (though not their complete and only fulfilment, as we shall see later) in the wonderful meteroric showers of the early morning of Nov. 12,1833. Those inclined to quibble by urging that 'the fixed stars did not fall' are reminded that our Lord said nothing about fixed stars falling, and that fixed stars could not fall: their falling would prove they are not fixed."

    For any JW who still holds on to the hope that dub doctrine has an inspired source: read 'em and weep!

  • Terry
    Terry
    Russell fully believed in the Univeral Salvation of all mankind though, and can't quite figure why Rutherford had everyone destroyed at Armageddon. Rutherford changed everything into a power trip.

    I've come to the opinion that religion becomes modern day myth when it changes to conform to the needs of its membership.

    The citizens of America were the offspring of religious fanatics, actually. There is no getting around it. Generations of children were brought up with god in their breakfast, hell in their lunch and heaven in their bedtime snacks. They digested it daily. The Great Awakening was one of many upheavals in religious continuity of opinion.

    Religious people, sooner or later, need SOMETHING TO HAPPEN! They will insist it is GOING to happen. This is a cry for oxygen. This is a plea for sanity. By openly insisting the tension is coming to a head they are creating an escape valve for insanity. Hence the preoccupation with END TIMES.

    Those caught up in the William Miller movement were religious fanatics. They saw god in everything...on purpose. Ultimately they were after a final orgasm of fulfillment in all those centuries of pent up tension and hope.

    But, all they got was more screwing....never a release (to put it crudely.).

    The willingness of people to jump into the rapids just to get downstream is, in my opinion, the cry of sanity to be released from the madness once and for all.

    All religious people live in a time warp that never moves an inch forward! Modernity and progress are the enemy. Sooner or later they crack. Either they have to have a date to wrap concrete hope around or they have to break something in anger. On the one end you have Millennialists and on the other you have Crusades and Terrorists.

    The point is this: SOMETHING HAS TO HAPPEN OR ELSE!!

    A sane person cannot live in suspended animation of mere hope. Somethings gotta give.

    Terry

  • minimus
    minimus

    That was one of the longest threads I've looked at in a long time. Clearly it was the most entertaining! (I knew it had to be a drunken dream. If CTR's beard was shot at, it would immediately grow replacement hair).

  • Terry
    Terry

    I toyed with the idea of Rutherford keeping Russell locked up in the basement and using him as a hostage to write ongoing theology (which Pastor Russell would thwart by making up ridiculous doctrines to expose Rutherford as an idiot) but the plan would backfire. JW's would believe ANYTHING said in the pages of the Watchtower.

    That proved unwieldy because I ran out of time. I wrote the whole thing in the hour before I went to work.

    T.

  • Pole
    Pole

    Great fiction, Terry. Should I say Terryfic? Keep'em coming.

    Pole

  • Terry
    Terry

    Thanks to all for the kind words.

    I'm always torn between dashing these things off and wishing I had been more precise or holding them back and waiting for inspiration; then, never posting them.

    It's all in (serious) fun, anyway.

    Much obliged.

    Terry

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