If religious people did obey the gospel then there would be no destructive policies and behaviour, they may pretend that they follow it but in fact the don't the FDS being a prime example.
True enough we usually see the negative side of religion, religion is a force of division and destruction.
Explaining the hateful passages of the Bible
by Rex 39 Replies latest watchtower bible
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greendawn
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AllAlongTheWatchtower
Here's an interesting view of the bible:
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GentlyFeral
Hellrider,
I don`t need any "source of strength" when I "contemplate the meaninglessness of life", because I don`t think it`s meaningless.
A non-snarky question for you:
In the absence of
Goda Great Over-Arching Deliberate Plan for the Universe, how and why is life not meaningless? I have my own embryonic ideas, but I'd like to hear yours, please.gently feral
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tetrapod.sapien
gf,
i know your question was to hellrider, but i wouldn't mind a crack at it too, as i have nothing better to do.
In the absence of
Goda Great Over-Arching Deliberate Plan for the Universe, how and why is life not meaningless?as far as we humans are concerned, the very fact that the universe creates life, or life sustaining pods called planets, creates meaning, even if there is no one around to apply the label of meaning to it. and the very fact that evolution by natural selection produces life and diversity here on earth, creates meaning, even if we're the only species capable of applying that label to their existence.
so, from a natural perspective, there is much meaning, for those capable of appreciating life, like humans. of course, nature is not meaningful in and of itself, but rather cold, blind and pitiless. and again, not to itself, but only to us sentient folk.
we create whatever meaning we can. meaning, as far as we can tell from observation and experimentation, does not exist in the sense that we define it as, and outside of ourselves. we create meaning. we even create the legends that supposedly give us even more meaning. it all comes from within, meaning does.
the very fact that we have evolved to this point, and can consciously observe our world and ascribe meaning to our own existence, is a miracle of nature, and should be held onto with all the life and power and intellect that we can muster, as humans.
in other words, just the fact that we can find meaning in our existence within nature, is the meaning itself. this sapience must be preserved at all costs. even though the rest of life, nature and the cosmos do not care if we survive at all, we must survive, as we are very special, in our own natural way. we must progress, for that is all we know.
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Spook
Life is empty and meaningless. The problem people have is that they make that meaningful. You see, it's empty and meaningless that life is empty and meaningless.
That may seem kind of silly, but I'd ask you to consider: If there were a god
1. What would the meaning of her life be?
2. Where did that meaning come from?
3. Does the meaning of your god's life exist apart from god, or is it generated by god?
4. An all powerful god must, by definition, have the power to generate her own meaning.
5. If choosing meaning is meaningful to your concept of the deity, then choosing meaning is meaningful for any conscious being. Or, conversely, if god's life is meaningless, then it isn't a problem if your life is meaningless.
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Daunt
Life is the most meaningful thing possible. I find it amazing how many people talk about life being meaningless without God. I can not believe a somewhat competent human being will just step on all the things human beings have to be thankful for. They are calling love meaningless, they are calling art meaningless, they are calling themselves meaningless. I just never understood that.
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Hellrider
In the absence of
Goda Great Over-Arching Deliberate Plan for the Universe, how and why is life not meaningless? I have my own embryonic ideas, but I'd like to hear yours, please.I`m not an atheist, I consider myself a very sceptical agnostic.I refuse to believe there is a God anywhere, but on the other hand I don`t dismiss that there are universal laws, moral laws that have the same basic core, laws that are the same for each and every man in the universe (Moral realism). I do NOT see these laws as just sympathy/empathy. I wouldn`t call this absolute norm God, though, but I can see that many people confuse these moral laws with God, or see them as proof that God exists. However, there is nothing more inlogical about this view, than the belief in God. The basic argument for the existence of God, is that creation needs a creator. This is per se inlogical, because that creator would also need a creator, the next one would need a creator also etc etc in infinity/ad infinitum. So assuming that there "is something" like absolute moral laws without the existence of God, is no more inlogical than assuming that there would have to be a God to create these laws.And I certainly don`t believe in an afterlife. When you die, that`s it, no reward, no punishment. But I believe that if you take this view of life, and use it as an excuse to do whatever you like (kill, rob, rape etc), you will have failed! But it has nothing to do with God at all. I don`t know how to explain it. Moral realism is a very complex idea.
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Daunt
I believe (Doesn't take much believing, experience will tell you this) that these universal laws come from nature and how we deal with nature. We do not like to die, so it's only logical to assume that other people do not want to die. If we kill a person that's taking away their right to living, and in the basic primitive human world you would have to worry about the social pressures that will come from killing a person that's benefitting the tribe and the family. In today's world this is the same case pretty much. Anyways all this bunched up together creates these laws, and it's just damaging to humanity to break these.
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DevonMcBride
Another great site is Christianity Revealed
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GentlyFeral
tetrapod,
there is much meaning, for those capable of appreciating life, like humans...just the fact that we can find meaning in our existence within nature, is the meaning itself. this sapience must be preserved at all costs
Thanks – this is cousin to the observations I've made over the past ten years or so.
When I was still trying to be an atheist, I came across the idea that belief in omens and magic arises inevitably out of our ability to make sense, or at least patterns, out of our environment. A reductionist would say that the magician (sometimes) perceives patterns where none exist. The conclusion I drew from that is: Homo sapiens is a meaning animal.
Spook,
4. An all powerful god must, by definition, have the power to generate her own meaning.
So we shorten the path to zero (or near-as-dammit) and each generate our own meaning for our lives. This is the fun sparkly tie-dyed branch of existentialism; yes?Daunt,
They are calling love meaningless, they are calling art meaningless, they are calling themselves meaningless.
HAHAHA! OK, whoever decided that "meaning" was the right word to describe the intrinsic preciousness of life possibly picked a red herring without knowing it. To the layman, "meaning" = "definition," like in the dictionary. And not all laymen realize that dictionaries are descriptive, not prescriptive. The "meaning" of life is often confused with the "purpose" of life. (Someone once told me "I don't think life has a purpose, so why even ask that question?" I answered, "But it's legitimate to ask 'what is the purpose of my life?'")But if, instead of meaning=definition=purpose,
meaning=treasure=intrinsic value,
...well, staggering possibilities open up. Like, you know, blood-drinking Kali Ma being the Compassionate Mother of the world, after all.
While my mind is wandering to the subject of existentialism, though, let me just quibble with a statement I found here:
Living without certainty and with personal responsibility is a nearly unbearable burden.
Yeah, but nobody lives utterly without certainty. As we stumble or march or tap-dance through life, we all arrive at some principles that hold up to repeated examination and challenge.Edited to add:Hellrider, I got this far before you posted. More later, perhaps. My brain is full.
gently feral