by RunningMan 20 Replies latest watchtower bible
I once read that the entire Roman Empire in the time of Christ was not much over 1,000,000 people, so how could puny little Israel who never had ANY empire, because they were too busy killing each other, have a larger population 1500 years BEFORE Christ's time?Farkel
It's been estimated that the city of Rome's population approached 1 million around that time.It was the largest city in the ancient world. The population for the empire would have been much larger.
ONCE again thankyou
I've forgotten where, but distinctly seem to remember the verse stating something like "it was not because of your size or power that God chose you - because you were one of the smallest nations - but because ...." etc.
So Israel was one of the smallest and weakest nations, this tiny nation with an army of a million or so, and a population with three millions or so. OK, so around you, you have Arab tribes, Egyptians, Ethiopians, Libyans, Scythians, Edomites, Ammonites, Greek tribes etc. - all presumably mightier ...... Sounds like a crowded Middle East ............
Just found, by the way, that world population around year 2,000 BC is estimated to have been around 25 millions and year 1,000 BC around 50 millions. Around year 0 some 300 millions, and then more or less "stable" (increasing to 500 millions or so) till year 1,700.
So 50 millions - and I am sure 20 of them lived in China and India, and surely 10 more in Africa, Europe etc. Leaves us with 20 in the whole Mediterranean- Middle East - Central East area, and then the Israeli 3 millions made them the smallest one?
OK, one more - funny how much one stumbles across while searching - estamates are that some 105 billion people have lived, and that not 25 % of that figure (which WT and others say) live today, but only some 5.5 %. So this world of ours must after the resurrection feed not 20-25 billions, but 105 billions ...... crowded house indeed.
Hi RunningMan,
very interesting stuff! Keep it coming!
I was checking some of the info, just couldn't find the Exodus reference as to Jochebed being 260 y.o. when Moses was born. It appears that there is no such a direct quote. Could you please provide the quote or line of reasoning leading to it? Thanx, enjoy your good work.
Behemot
We can arrive at the age of Jochebed with fairly simple mathematics. First of all, here is what we know about her: Exodus 26:59 tells us that she was the daughter of Levi. Exodus 6:20 tells us that she was the mother of Moses. This is already enough information for us to go on, but the book of Jasher tells us that she was born at the border of Egypt, when the 70 were entering. Jasher is consistent with the Bible's information. Now, Kohath was already born when they entered – he is on the list. He lived 133 years. His son, Amram lived for 137 years, and became father to Moses. Moses was 80 when the Israelites left Egypt. So, the maximum length of the Exodus was 350 years. The Bible says it was 430 years. So, if Jochabed was born in year 0 of the time in Egypt, then she gave birth to Moses somewhere between year 270 and 350. At the low end (270), we are making some ridiculous assumptions about men fathering children on their deathbed. It would also make her at least 137 years older than her husband.
Hi RM,
thanks for replying. I checked the references: the one about Jochebed being the daughter of Levi is Numbers (not Exodus) 26:59. The quote from the Book of Jasher is 59:9.
I wonder why the parallel verse in Genesis listing the sons of Levi who entered in Egypt mentions the 3 boys (also mentioned in Jasher 59:9) but omits Jochebed. Coincidence, case, purpose or what? Got any idea - info on that?
Behemot
...forgot to ask:
how would you answer the claim that the Book of Asher as known today is a forgery and not the one mentioned in the Bible? See the link:
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Sefer%20haYashar%20(midrash )
Excerpt:
The book seems to pretend to be the otherwise lost Sefer haYashar mentioned in Joshua and 2 Samuel, and covers Biblical history from the creation of Adam and Eve to a summary of the initial Israelite conquest of Canaan in the beginning of the book of Judges. It contains references that fit those cited in the Biblical texts, both the reference about the sun and moon found in Joshua and also the reference in 2 Samuel... But the book in its entirety cannot be so old as shown by chapter 10 covering the descendants of Noah which even contains medieval names for territories and countries, perhaps mostly obviously Franza for France and Lumbardi for Lombardy in Italy. (gross!!! I double checked this and it's true).
Most of its extra-Biblical accounts are found in nearly the same form in either other medieval compilations, or in the Talmud or in other midrash or in Arabic sources. For example it contains the common tale that Lamech and his son Jabal accidentally killed Cain, thus requiting his wickedness for slaying Abel.
Behemot
So, it sounds like the book of Asher is about as authentic as the rest of the Bible. Consider the similarities:
But the book in its entirety cannot be so old as shown by chapter 10 covering the descendants of Noah which even contains medieval names for territories and countries,
Most of the books of the Bible are not as old as they claim, nor were they written by the person who claimed to have written them. Daniel comes to mind. As for using the wrong names, Moses likewise refers to the city of "Dan" which was not founded until long after his death.
Most of its extra-Biblical accounts are found in nearly the same form in either other medieval compilations, or in the Talmud or in other midrash or in Arabic sources.
This is common in the Bible, as well. Some stories in the Bible are reworkings of myths from other cultures, and some parts are directly copied from other non-Hebrew writings.
For example it contains the common tale that Lamech and his son Jabal accidentally killed Cain, thus requiting his wickedness for slaying Abel.
The book of Jude takes quotes from some rather silly apocalyptic writings, such as the book of Enoch. The Bible also seems to think that the Nephilim continued to exist long after the flood.
So, in other words, I agree with you. The book of Asher is full of crap - just like the rest of the Bible.
In the case of Jochebed, the writer clearly got mixed up, crediting Moses mother with being the daughter of Levi. Since Levi was a grown man with several children, and the Bible gives his age at death, we can calculate a possible range for Jochebed's birth date. Then, give the Hebrews enough time to multiply from 70 to 2 million, and Jochebed now has a child. The writer clearly messed up. However, that shouldn't surprise us. The entire exodus account is likely fiction anyway.
