Longtime JWs: Can you recall the path of JW doubts throughout your life?

by ithinkisee 40 Replies latest jw friends

  • ithinkisee
    ithinkisee

    Have any of you who were ever "raised in the truth" really traced your doubts back to as early as you remember? I would be interested in hearing what they were.

    I started tracing my path of doubts. Here they are:

    Doubts as a child:
    Warnings in the literature that the "the devil transforms himself into an angel of light" and can appear like the truth. I used to think - "well, that might mean Satan could be posing as Jehovah's Witnesses too."

    The age-old fallacy: How do we know the Bible is from God? Because it says so in the Bible! (I didn't even know what fallacies were back then ...)

    Birthdays and minor holidays like mothers day, fathers day, etc. Beards too.

    My mom and the congregation telling me my dad is really Satan trying to turn me away from Jehovah.

    Constant pressure to conform by using guilt.

    Doubts While at Bethel (19 yrs old):

    General obsession with money and position by almost all at Bethel - especially the higher-up ones.

    The Society's fascination with their buildings, and their constant bragging about them (anyone who has been on a Bethel tour knows what I am talking about)

    The creature worship of the Governing Body by Bethelites and visitors..

    You move move ahead ENTIRELY by who you know and who you make alliances with.

    Very high up and longtime brothers at Bethel who seemed very unhappy - and downright rude and mean.

    Told by a brother in writing department under his breath, that they had a UN membership and would go to the UN to research - trying to identify the King of the North - and to listen in on meetings to see if anything would tip them off to the Great Tribulation.

    Told by a brother in Writing Dept that the reason they came out with another Creation book so soon after the other one was because they were threatened with lawsuits because of the misquotes.

    Learning from brothers in writing and service departments that often the articles written in the magazines and talks at the conventions are meant to address specific problems - and the problem isn't usually readily apparent in the title or general subject of the talk/article.

    Doubts After Bethel. Married - Without Kids:

    Going out in service and meeting a pastor at the door. He calmly set us down and did some "seed-planting", methodically showing me and my wife how the New World Translation twisted texts to fit their doctrine by blatantly adding to scripture (or leaving stuff out). Rendering the same word differently in different places. His final words to me were - "If you don't listen to ANYTHING I tell you, listen to this - PLEASE go back and study the original Greek."

    Generation change in 1995,1996. This is the main thing that HAD kept me going in the truth - based on the Awake! masthead - a promise from Jehovah. A prophesy from the Society in Jehovah's name. Once they admitted they were wrong on this - I thought to myself - they could be wrong on everything! I realized at that moment I would die in this system. I lamented not going to college.

    My parents divorce - my dad had an "apostate" lawyer. This apostate lawyer (I now realize in hindsight) also used this opportunity as seed-planting. He basically went through the entire range of JW teachings - with the apostate slant - in the court papers. Our whole family read these papers. These affected me greatly, and certain points from these papers would come back to me from time to time.

    Also during my parents divorce, the Society provided us with a booklet that detailed "How" to respond to questioning in court. I remember being a little disturbed at how the responses we were to give weren't entirely truthful.

    About the same time as the divorce I started going to college (now that the Society had given the OK). One of the first classes I took was called "Logic and Reasoning". We spent the whole semester learning about fallacies. At first I applied them to the apostate arguments in the court papers from my parents' divorce. But over the years I began to identify them in the Society's literature.

    A bible study my wife and I conducted with a young, but very Christian family. The husband - very nice and sincere - said that with all honesty that he could (and had) read the entire New Testament (multiple times) and felt that the Trinity was very clearly taught in scripture. I was annoyed with him because I took the WT line that "anyone who reads the bible with an open mind could not POSSIBLY come to the conclusion that Jesus was God.

    Off and on I would make lists of things that bothered me I wanted to research. For various reasons (WT scant revealing of quotes, date inconsistencies I blamed on myself being unable to figure out, feelings of guilt that I was being presumptuous or nitpicking) I gave up. This happened probably a dozen times.

    After Bethel & Married - With Kids:

    Generation thing continued to gnaw at me.

    Wife pregnant with first child. Was not fully convinced in my mind that "no blood" was something I wanted to commit to. She had to actually break the ice with the doctor regarding the blood issue.

    UN Scandal

    Pedophile scandal

    Recognizing more faulty reasoning in the magazines - fallacies.

    Increasing frequency of Circuit Overseers (in the congregation) and Bethel speakers (at assemblies) saying, "Even if what the Faithful Discreet Slave says does not make a bit of sense to you, just DO WHAT THEY SAY. THEY are the CHOSEN channel."

    A bethel speaker at an assembly said, "Apostates and other opposers of truth will attempt to use LOGIC to persuade you that this isn't the Truth."

    More and more articles, and talks from CO's encouraged getting baptized very young. Without saying a SPECIFIC AGE - they still said if a kid is in high school, they should have been baptized. I felt this is wrong - and even voiced as much to my wife. Baptism talks always state that "this is one of the most important decisions in your life". If that is so, and they are old enough to make a decision that affects their whole life - then they should also be able to get married, and make many other life-altering decisions. To me it felt like recruitement - "Get em while they're young and lock em in so that if they leave they would also lose their whole family."

    My oldest daughter got to school age and my own feelings as a child of not eating a cupcake on the day of someone's birthday came flooding back to me. I began to regret what my daughter was going to have to go through in school.

    Off and on I would make lists of things that bothered me I wanted to research. For various reasons (WT scant revealing of quotes, date inconsistencies I blamed on myself being unable to figure out, feelings of guilt that I was being presumptuous or nitpicking) I gave up.

    10-year wedding anniversary was 6 months away. I realized that my doubts had gradually increased over the years to the point that my wife and I would not talk about longer-term goals for our family. Our communication got less and less - and in fact, probably never really was. I looked back over the past ten years and really examined what it was that caused the communication rift. It was my doubts. Plain and simple. I did not want our next ten years to lack this kind of communication.

    So I began to research ... and here I am.

    -ithinkisee

  • riotgirlpeeps
    riotgirlpeeps

    Mine will be a little less of a long breakout but with several things.

    • Being raised in a congregation that refused to return any official title to my father though he had been off of reproof for 10+ years.
    • Having elders in same said congregation go to my father while he was in a mental hospital getting treatment for depression and saying something to the effect of we will get you out of here, he refused because he knew he needed help.
    • Being told from childhood on that the end was soon and being given the impression I would never graduate high school, I am now well past that, and divorced.
    • Having virtually no support on diagnosis of Type 1 diabetes even though I had just finished pioneering for one year.
    • Seeing people use jc as catholic "confession".
    • Having many questions about things but knowing I couldn't ask them because all the instances the questions involved would be considered "demonic".
    • Questioning the reasoning behind minor holidays.
    • Knowing of several rapes, and abuse cases where no reprimends were made and individuals involved were urged and therefore did not press charges.
    • The blatant amount of "cliques" that blatantly did things that were anti witness but never got into trouble
    • Ultimately while being df'd before and trying to return to the org and still being shunned by the family with the exception to make sure I wasn't dead
  • riotgirlpeeps
    riotgirlpeeps

    Forgot to mention:

    • While being married to my abusive ex being advised by the elders not to divorce him, and being told by them to not keep a blog (I kept up the blog and divorced him)
  • lilybird
    lilybird

    I began having doubts after the birth of my first child...There were some things that went on in the congregation that made me wonder if they really had the spiritual direction of God ....but I mostly felt that I didn't want my children raised in this life.. I had been raised a JW and didn't want my kids to go thru what I had ... When I started to discuss my doubts with my husband,, I found he felt the same way and after much discussion.. we both decided to disassociate ourselves...I found out many other things later on through this site...that I wasn't aware of.. It made myself and my husband even more sure that we made the right decision to walk away from the control of the JW society...

  • Momofmany
    Momofmany

    Oh, lets see.

    The nicest girl in the whole world, had a husband who was an elder. He was a mean drunk, and everyone knew it. She came to the meetings with black eyes, and people would look down on her, while they looked up to him.

    When my mom started studying, I was 14. My mom took me to the meeting. Four boys had my backed to a wall talking to me, and I was told it was my fault.

    When my brother was 12, and was getting baptized, and they said, hope you make a better witness than your sister and mom.

    Having to go hungry, because we had no food, and it was wrong to go to food banks, because they were held in the basement of a church.

    Helped my mom when her garage burnt down, dad had his leg amputated two months prior to that, and none of us kids lived close to help.

    When my Dad died, not one person brought my mom a covered dish,

    When my mom got baptized, they kept on asking her if dad had done anything scriptural for a divorce. Since they were unevenly yoked.

    Guess it all boils down to lack of love and sharp tongues.

  • Gordy
    Gordy



    ithinkisee



    I became a JW when I was 19 in 1971. Got married had children within 3 years. The doubts started soon after. There are similar ones you had also.

    The Society's fascination with their buildings, and their constant bragging about them (anyone who has been on a Bethel tour knows what I am talking about)




    They kept telling us end is near. But in next breath telling all these wonderful branch offices, especially Patterson, they were building and all the new Kingdom Halls.

    A bible study my wife and I conducted with a young, but very Christian family. The husband - very nice and sincere - said that with all honesty that he could (and had) read the entire New Testament (multiple times) and felt that the Trinity was very clearly taught in scripture. I was annoyed with him because I took the WT line that "anyone who reads the bible with an open mind could not POSSIBLY come to the conclusion that Jesus was God.




    This wasn't told me by anyone I called on but by two Elders on seperate occassions. That the NT showed that Jesus was God.

    Generation change in 1995,1996. This is the main thing that HAD kept me going in the truth - based on the Awake! masthead - a promise from Jehovah. A prophesy from the Society in Jehovah's name. Once they admitted they were wrong on this - I thought to myself - they could be wrong on everything




    What annoyed me about this was the off hand way they changed it. A major teaching for about 60 years and it was dropped just like that. I remember the confusion of many an older JW over it. Also the teaching on the "sheep and goats" which was quietly changed.



    I used to listen to talks, brothers using scripture to prove a point. But on reading it in context it would say nothing of the kind.



    Gradually what with family problems and trying to keep my doubts to myself, and generally just going through the moves as a JW.



    I had a breakdown, attempted suicide, ended up in hospital for about 6 weeks. Got reproved because of it. Had to leave home because I was considered a "spiritual danger" to family. Eventually three years later stopped going to meetings, after learning the truth about the Watchtower organisation, another two years on disassociated and became a Christian. Which meant that for the past 5 years my JW wife and two JW daughters have not spoken to me or had contact with me in any way.



    There come moments in our lives when we have to make decisions that are going to be painful for ourselves and others. Its either that or just live a lie and maybe end up mentally broken.

  • Momofmany
    Momofmany
    Generation change in 1995,1996. This is the main thing that HAD kept me going in the truth - based on the Awake! masthead - a promise from Jehovah. A prophesy from the Society in Jehovah's name. Once they admitted they were wrong on this - I thought to myself - they could be wrong on everything

    This is one thing I've talked to with my Mom. She said, she doesn't remember there being a change. She said she never heard it, and even if they say that now, she doesn't believe it. Sometimes she gives me glimmers of hope, that she wont stay, but then reality hits, and knows she'll never leave.

    Truth be told, I heard about the change second hand. I don't remember anything being said. A pioneer told me.

  • Whiskeyjack
    Whiskeyjack

    Well ...

    I started having serious doubts about age 20/21 years. I was trying to think of what to do with my life since floatng through high school with no direction (why bother, I would never graduate before this "old system" was no more!). I observed that if the GB tolerated cigeratte smoking for years, what else was God holding back? Just how old was the generation of 1914 going to get? This terminated my sense of GB infallibility in so far as their knowing with God thought.

    The proverbial camel back braking straw though was the behaviour of most of all the young people around me (moved among several congs. in my region). Teenagers and young adults in the various social cliques would turn on each other like wolves when one of them got "caught" doing something, pressuring others to "keep their mouths shut" or else experience social death. Since it was often over the usual petty stuff, I couldn't give my alliegance to an organization that couldn't realistically accomodate regular young people. A "Nazereen" lifestyle isn't for everyone but why were we made to feel so worthless and guilty?

    Durng this period occurred I had my first real job in a bank which propelled me to go back to University (the local elders were a little worried but I was well liked since I had never been "in trouble--had a very lonely,boring teenage life to pay for this goodwill though!). That job was my first immersion among "worldly" people and opened my eyes to what a strange little group of people I was isolated within.

    So I just faded away and never looked back (until I popped on this site)

    W.

  • Odrade
    Odrade

    Yeah, I've thought about this before, the thing is I didn't realize doubts for what they were until I was well out of it. Then I found myself saying "yeah, that never made sense," all the time. I also realized that some part of me was always thinking about these so-called "truths," but they only crystallized into clear thoughts after I started rejecting the JWs. Up until then I didn't even realize I had doubts at all.

    I remember trying to understand friends who had doctrinal questions. I always thought that it was because they didn't do enough research. Then later, I realized that those doctrines really didn't make sense.

    Example: My husband always took issue with the story of Abraham being asked by God to sacrifice his son on an altar. "A thing that never came up into his heart." according to Jeremiah (? --too lazy to look up the reference at the mo') So how could the story be other than just a story, and how could it be representative of the ransom when it wasn't the same thing at all. Abraham killing his son to appease the request of a capricious God, as opposed to Jesus voluntarily dying to erase sins, (nevermind that the whole ransom thing is another "story" we later came to have issue with.)

    Anyways, at the time, I just told him there were some things that we, with our puny human intelligence, were just not meant to understand and that in the NEW SYSTEM God would explain the rest to us if we would just hang on and get there.

    Um, yeah, I was that brainwashed. LMAO!

    I've written elsewhere that it was a question put to me by a householder that pushed me toward critical thinking, but really, it goes back much farther than that to a question another householder asked me when I was about 20. I had been calling on a man for several months. Big, nice biker guy, about 50, had a beautiful chromed up Honda Goldwing that he parked under the awning entrance to his little efficiency apartment. He would hit the road and be gone for weeks, but when he was at home, he always invited me in and gave me tea, and we talked about the Bible. He would also take the Awake magazine. But not the Watchtower, or ever any books or brochures. Everytime I would offer, he would pull out his Bible and say, "Here's a scripture I think you should pay attention to if you want to be a Christian." Then he would read Ecclesiastes 12:12 "To the making of many books there is no end, and much devotion to them is wearisome to the flesh." I would try to explain that we were not devoted to the books, they were just tools. He would say, "Why do you need a whole library full of books to explain just one book, the Bible? Read your Bible, that's all I'm saying."

    I continued with the JWs for nearly 12 years more after my visits with Bob. But the bloom was off the rose. Everytime we got a new book or brochure at a convention, or we started a new book at the Book study, that scripture would flash thru my mind. "why do we need a whole library full of books?" Well, I would quickly shut that voice up. But it was always there "oh, another book. so many books, I'm tired of all of these books." I started going in service with just my Bible on occasion. That went over well. NOT. Which only strengthened that voice in my mind: "Why do I need a whole bookbag full of books to go out and preach?" I could never turn it off.

    To Bob, who I wished posted here, or lived in the neighborhood so I could tell him for real, I GET IT NOW. THANKS!

  • Momofmany
    Momofmany
    Then he would read Ecclesiastes 12:12 "To the making of many books there is no end, and much devotion to them is wearisome to the flesh." I would try to explain that we were not devoted to the books, they were just tools. He would say, "Why do you need a whole library full of books to explain just one book, the Bible? Read your Bible, that's all I'm saying."

    I have to say, I really like that.

    Bob sounds like a really great guy. I'd love to meet him myself.

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