Watchtower Blotch of Alpha and Omega interpretation

by Ticker 29 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • JCanon
    JCanon

    Use of "alpha and omega" is a conceptual reference for someone unique in their class. In this case it was used to apply to the uniqueness of YHWH and Christ.

    YHWH is unique and thus the beggining and end of being ultimate God and Creator.

    Christ is the "alpha and omega" of his kind since he is the only angel created directly by God.

    Thus God and Christ can be uniquely "alpha omegas" because they are the only unique beings in the universe generally. That is, Christ is an angel but the only one created directly by the Father, all others were created "through" Christ as the Word.

    It's not a "title" but a "distinction."

    JC

  • Hellrider
    Hellrider


    The claim that REV 22:12-13 doesn`t use the word Jesus in the greek text. Well, how do they explain this, then: " I am the root and the offspring of David and the bright morning star.

    I really doubt that Jehovah is the offspring of David. How do they explain that one?

  • Undecided
    Undecided

    WHY would God or Jesus be responsible for a guidence book that has to be interpreted and explained by every christain group that claims his love and salvation. If the bible is God's book, why didn't he make sure it was put together in a way that was easily understood by the whole world and didn't have to be researched to see if this had been added or that been symbolic of something else, etc. Are we going to hell or not? Is the Pope real? Is there going to be a new earth or is heaven our destiny? Are the three one or three different entities? Should we fight in wars or not? What is being part of the world mean? Should we get married or stay single to do God's work like Paul? Do we have a soul or are we the soul? What happens when we die, do we go to heaven now, wait untill the last trumpet and be changed in the moment and twinking of an eye? When will the lion eat straw?

    The answers all depend on what religion or faith you have followed. Doesn't seem like being a christain is as simple as Christ ment it to be.

    I think it's all a bunch of BS.

    Ken P.

  • rocketman
    rocketman
    The bulk of my last post, in fact, set forth some of the ways in which Revelation applied many other divine titles and descriptors to Christ in a binitarian fashion. Christ and his Father were clearly distinguished from each other in some ways, and blurred in other ways, with the application of the titles "First and the Last", "King of Kings and Lord of Lords", "Alpha and Omega", etc



    What Leolaia states here is the major reason why debates about the relationship between God and Christ are never -ending. The Bible presents both possibilities - two distinct beings, and yet also a "blurred" presentation of the two. I think much the same can be said of the nature of the Holy Spirit - it's sometimes presented as non-personal, other times a person. The debates will never end.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    rocketman....That is a good point about the blurring between Christ and the Holy Spirit as well (e.g. pneumatic christology), and I touch on this subject in my thread on the Holy Spirit: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/69107/1.ashx

    What we find is that ante-Nicene trinitarian thought, Monarchianistic thought, Arian thought, etc. synthesize the various conflicting christologies and (naive) theologies of the NT in different ways, privileging some ideas over others and glossing over what may have been the original conceptions in the individual NT books. These elements include (1) a basic monotheistic impulse, derived from certain portions of the OT, requiring there to be only ONE God, (2) a binitarian conception of "Two Powers in Heaven", derived from post-exilic dualism, rabbinical exegesis of some texts (such as how Yahweh could be portrayed in Exodus as both a young "warrior" as well as an aged, wise lawgiver), the distinction between the "Ancient of Days" and the "one like a son of man" in Daniel, the Memra/Logos theology of Philo of Alexandria, first-century rabbis, etc., possibily ultimately derived from the indigenous Canaanite/Israelite distinction between the Father-god El, the creator, and Baal, his adopted son who rules as king, (3) the active agency of the Holy Spirit (=Wisdom), as believed to have been working actively in the Christian community, which was personified in the OT and in intercanonical texts and which derives ultimately from a personal deity (Asherah) abstractized as a hypostasis (facet) of Yahweh, as his divine presence and face, (4) the tendency to blur the distinction between Christ and the Holy Spirit, so that Christ is either speaking with the voice of feminine divine Wisdom (as in the synoptic gospels) or is characterized in pneumatic terms (e.g. the "Spirit of Christ"), (5) the confession of Jesus as "Lord" (kurios), which provided an avenue for applying OT scriptures referring to Yahweh (kurios in the LXX) to Christ, (6) the belief in Christ's deity, as seen in NT statements applying theos "God", theotétos "godship, deity", pléroma "fullness", morphé theou "form of God", isa theou "equal to God", kharaktér tés hupostaseós theou "impression of God's substance", etc. to Christ, the application of divine epithets to Christ, the application of OT texts referring to God to Christ, etc., (7) triadic formulae in the NT, which set forth the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (in various wordings) as a group mentioned together, but without any explicit trinitarian theology, and so forth.

    Trinitarian thought was aimed at preserving a distinction between the "Two Powers in Heaven" (Father and Son), as well as ascribing full deity to the Son, while equally preserving the monotheistic impulse and the triadic frame provided by liturgy. One main solution involved recognizing a distinction of personhood (persona) within one God, with each person united with the other. Monarchianism or Modalism, on the other hand, privileged monotheism over binitarianism, by positing the Son and the Holy Spirit as different hypostases (aspects) of the same one God. Arianism (and the doctrine of the WTS) pushed the distinction in the "Two Powers in Heaven" concept into a ditheism, at the expense of monotheism, so that Jesus is a lesser or inferior god. To harmonize with monotheism, the actual deity of Christ may be denied in this view. This gives only a very rough idea of how theological debates can potentially go on forever, because there are many different ways in which the data from the OT and NT can be combined, recombined, reinterpreted, emphasized or deemphasized, producing new systematic theologies reducing the diversity of the original texts into a synthetic system that that is nowhere found in the Bible (what is right for the goose is right for the gander, if the systematic doctrine of the Trinity is not in the Bible, neither is Arianism per se).

    Hellrider....The explicit reference to Jesus is in v. 16. I'm not sure what the Society says, but I suspect they say that there is a change in speaker in this verse. This is possible, as there are frequent shifts in speakers in the chapter. However, it is equally possible that there is a shift in speaker in v. 12, so that the angel speaks from v. 10-11, Jesus speaks from v. 12-16, and so forth. If you look at various translations, you will see the passage punctuated differently:

    Jerusalem Bible: v. 10-15, punctuated as spoken entirely by the angel, v. 16 unpunctuated (but spoken by Jesus)
    New International Version: v. 10-11, punctuated as spoken by the angel, v. 12-16, punctuated as spoken by Jesus
    New American Standard, New King James Version: v. 10-11, punctuated as spoken by the angel, v. 12-13, puctuated as spoken by a new speaker, the Alpha and the Omega, v. 14-15 unpunctuated (presumably written by John), v. 16, punctuated as spoken by Jesus
    New World Translation: v. 10-15, punctuated with double quotes as spoken entirely by the angel, within it v. 12-15 punctuated with single quotes as spoken by the Alpha and the Omega and v. 16 punctuated separately with single quotes as spoken by Jesus.

    There is actually no textual authority for any of this punctuation, it is all conjectural. A switch in speaker at v. 12 is assumed by all these versions except the Jerusalem Bible, whereas a switch in speaker at v. 16 (necessary for denying that Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega) is assumed by the New World Translation and the Jerusalem Bible. Textually, we know that the angel is speaking in v. 10 and the thought expressed in this verse is concluded in v. 11. At this point, the voice is no longer that of the angel who is "just a servant like you" but that of "the Alpha and the Omega" the "First and the Last" who "very soon shall be with you again". So whether expressed by punctuation or not, there is some implicit shift here. Since the angel is delivering the revelation of Jesus (v. 16), it could still be the angel still speaking but now speaking with the voice of Jesus, delivering his message. Then there is a beatitude and curse in v. 14-15, which could be a continuation of what the Alpha and Omega was saying, or even a comment by the author himself. Then in v. 16, we have an explicit referece to Jesus, but we don't know for sure whether this continues the same voice in v. 13, is a new voice, or is part of the angel's message continuing from v. 10. The important thing about v. 12-13 however is that the Alpha and Omega says that he "is coming quickly" (erkhomai takhu), and this promise is again repeated in v. 20, and the author identifies the voice as Jesus: "Amen, come Lord Jesus".

  • Hellrider
    Hellrider

    "Zechariah 4:6, 10: "Not by might and not by power, but by my spirit, says Yahweh Sabaoth .... These seven eyes are the eyes of Yahweh; they range throughout the whole earth".

    Revelation 5:6: "Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. He had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth". "

    ...WoW, that`s pretty amasing stuff, LeoLaia. I though I knew the Bible pretty well, but there are obviously many things I have missed, but you make it clear as day. Just wondering: Do you have a degree in theology?

  • ithinkisee
    ithinkisee
    but the NWT peppers the whole passage with a convoluted series of quotation marks

    From what I have heard Greek scholars say (since I am not one) there are not quotes in Greek.

    -ithinkisee

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    ithinkisee....There are no punctuation markings in the Greek, and thus they are conjectural on everyone's part. The Society's nestled quotes within quotes punctuation of the passage is inherently less likely than the others since it is more complex than a linear succession of speakers, and it is especially unlikely because it posits two separate speakers within another's speech:

    12 “ ‘Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to render to each one as his work is. 13 I am the Al´pha and the O·me´ga, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. 14 Happy are those who wash their robes, that the authority [to go] to the trees of life may be theirs and that they may gain entrance into the city by its gates. 15 Outside are the dogs and those who practice spiritism and the fornicators and the murderers and the idolaters and everyone liking and carrying on a lie.’

    16 “ ‘I, Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to YOU people of these things for the congregations. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright morning star.’

    It is far more likely that: (1) The angel stopped speaking in v. 11 and v. 12-16 are all by the same speaker, (2) The angel spoke for himself in v. 10-11 and then in a single divine voice in v. 12-16, or (3) The angel spoke only in v. 10-11, then the Alpha and Omega spoke in v. 12-15, and then Jesus spoke in v. 16. It is deciding between these three possibilities that is the problem.

    In this respect, it is important to note that the promise "I am coming quickly (ekhomai takhu)" in v. 12 is repeated by Jesus in v. 20, the promise to "bring the reward to every man according to what he deserves" in v. 12 is made by Jesus in 2:23 (and Yahweh in the OT), the title "the first and the last" is applied to Jesus in 1:17-18 and 2:8, and Jesus says that he was the one who "has sent my angel to make these revelations to you" (v. 16). At the same time, the "Lord God" is the one who is also said to be "coming quickly (erkhomai takhu)" in v. 6-7, who "has sent his angel to reveal to his servants what is soon to take place" in v. 6, and who is referred to by the equivalent phrase "Alpha and Omega" (= First and Last) in 1:8. Either Jesus and the "Lord God" are one and the same, or they are both united in their actions and unique identity as the "First and the Last" (= Yahweh) of Deutero-Isaiah.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    Hellrider....Nope, not me. Tho I minored in classics as an undergrad....many, many years ago.

  • Hellrider
    Hellrider

    I read your fantastic article on JW-teachings and the Cross too, by the way, it was great. Amasing.Should be printed in a magasine, or something. Lately I`ve been comparing stuff from the "regular" Bible and the NWT, which I found online (I`m norwegian, we didn`t get a translation of the NWT here until around 1990, I think, and that was after my time, so I`ve never read it). I couldn`t believe the changes they made. Reading "Jesus,if you are who you say you are, come down from that... torture stake"...is just ridicolous, I laughed till I almost fell of the chair. Even IF they were right about the cross (which they aren`t), it would still have been wrong to change that passage,but they just don`t see it. "Torture stake" , wtf is that.

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