Comments You Will Not hear at the 7-10-05 WT Study

by blondie 16 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  blondie

  "a better resurrection"

  The WTS taught that when the ancient worthies, such as Abraham, Job, David, etc., were resurrected that they would be perfect from the beginning and would live in re-established earthly Jerusalem and rule over the earth.

  1924 "No doubt many boys and girls who read this book will live to see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Daniel, and those other men of old come forth in the glory of their better resurrection, of perfect in mind and body. It will not take long for Christ to appoint them to their post of honor and authority as his earthly representatives.

  (The Way To Paradise, 1924, p. 226)

  The Golden Age, March 16, 1921, p. 381

  "That period of time, beginning in 1575 before A.D. 1, of necessity would end in the fall of the year 1925, at which time the type ends and the great antitype must begin. What, then, should we expect to take place? In the type there must be a full restoration; therefore the great antitype must mark the beginning of restoration of all things...there will be a resurrection of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob...we may expect 1925 to witness the return of these faithful men of Israel from the conditions of death,...Then Jerusalem will become the captial of the world,...Because that time is at hand we can confidentlly say: Millions now living will never die."

  1920 "A simple calculation of these jubilees brings us to this important fact: Seventy jubilees of fifty years each would be a total of 3500 years. That period of time beginning 1575 before A.D. 1 of necessity would end in the fall of 1925, at which time the type ends and the great antitype must begin. What, then, should we expect to take palace? In the type there must be a full restoration; beginning of restoration of all things. The chief thing to be restored is the human race to life; and since other Scriptures definitely fix the fact that there will be a resurrection of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and other faithful ones of old, and that these will have the first favor, we may expect 1925 to witness the return of these faithful men and Israel from the condition of death, being resurrected and fully restored to perfect humanity and made the visible, legal representatives of the new order of things on earth.

  (Millions now living will never die, 1920 p 89-90)

  You have made all preparations for father and mother. The home is all ready; a special room is prepared for them, fitted with every thing you can think of that might give pleasure and delight. You then call up the princes at Jerusalem, state your case

  , and make request that your father and your mother might be awakened. In joyful expectancy you wait. Some morning you hear talking in the room you have prepared. There was no one there last night. You know that there are no thieves or intruders; for all such experiences have been eliminated. You do not need to be fearful; so you listen at the door. You hear father’s familiar voice saying, "Mother, where are we? Are we dreaming? Why, I thought I attended your funeral last summer; then I was taken sick, and they had the doctor, and that is the last I can remember."
  (The Way to Paradise, p. 228-229, 1924)

  But now the WTS teaches that no one is resurrected with a perfect body on earth

  w75 2/1 p. 90 Keep Looking, Keep Moving Forward with Jehovah ***

  What about those coming back to live on the earth? What kind of bodies will they have? What will they look like? As illustrated by past resurrections, especially that of Lazarus, they will no doubt look much like they did before they died, so as to be recognizable to themselves and others. (John 11:39-44) A tall person will not come back as a short person, nor will a very old person come back looking like a teen-ager. Men will be men, and women, women. They will have their identical personalities and the same memory. As was evidently true of those resurrected in the past, the resurrected ones will have sound and complete bodies. They will not come back in the sickly condition that led to their death. But this does not mean that they will have perfect bodies, for such would not go with imperfect personalities. Rather, they will come forth with imperfect bodies and, as they make spiritual progress, overcoming their weaknesses and imperfections through obedience to Kingdom rule and their receiving the atoning benefits of Jesus’ sacrifice, their bodies will come ever closer to perfection.

  Blondie
• 

  heathen

  Good catch there blondie . That is clearly a bunch of dogma which is wrong when you consider what the bible says about those who actually do inherrit the kingdom of the heavens . Corruption cannot inherit incorruption . They even believe that at death all sins are forgiven aside from that of speaking against the spirit . It's like they want to try and give hope to those that can't achieve a level of obedience that they feel is acceptable .
• 

  frankiespeakin

  Blondie,

  I'm sure glad you're able to bring all these quote's to all our readers attention. I'm sure the Governing Body wishes you would stop doing these type of threads. Let them have it, make them eat thier own words.
• 

  blondie

  relatively few remaining anointed brothers of Jesus still on earth

  How many Christians were there in the first century?

  More than 144,000?

  How does the WTS explain that away?

  ***

  w52 1/15 p. 62 Questions from Readers ***

  •

  According to the article "Hated for His Name" in the September 1, 1951, Watchtower, hundreds of thousands of Christians died in the "ten persecutions" starting in Nero’s time, 144,000 dying in Egypt alone during one of the persecutions. How can this be harmonized with the Scriptural limitation of 144,000 placed on the number being in Christ’s body, and which position was the only one open to Christians during those centuries?—J.A., Dominican Republic.

  The article did not class with any finality the individuals that died during these persecutions, but spoke of the results in a general way. Note that a key qualification was made in the case referred to in the question: "In the province of Egypt alone, 144,000 such professed Christians died by violence in the course of this persecution, in addition to another 700,000 who died as a result of fatigues encountered in banishment or under enforced public works." The victims are identified as "professed Christians", not Christians in fact. Many of those persons might have been caught in the wave of persecution, but may never have actually preached the truth or followed in Jesus’ footsteps, being only professed Christians. They knew the world they lived in was rotten and they were listening to the message of the Christians and willing to die for it even though not in line for the high calling in Christ Jesus. Many professed Christians today might be willing to die for their faith, but still not be Jesus’ footstep followers and meeting the Scriptural requirements for such.

  ***

  w72 7/1 pp. 415-416 Questions from Readers

  • Large numbers of Christians are said to have been put to death during the Roman persecution in the first few centuries of the Common Era. How, then, is it possible for thousands in this century to have been called to become part of the body of Christ composed of only 144,000 persons?—U.S.A.

  There are historical indications that many Christians were bitterly persecuted, even killed, in the first few centuries. However, it should be remembered that, in itself, a martyr’s death did not give a person merit before Jehovah God nor did it guarantee membership in the heavenly kingdom. Many persons, even in recent times, have been willing to die for a cause, religious or otherwise. A person’s claiming to be a Christian and even dying for his belief does not in itself mean that he is an approved servant of Jehovah God. As the apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthians: "If I give all my belongings to feed others, and if I hand over my body, that I may boast, but do not have love, I am not profited at all." (1 Cor. 13:3) It is not death, but faithfulness to the very death, that determines whether an individual will receive "the crown of life."—Rev. 2:10.

  Thus the fact (circular reasoning) that today there is still a remnant of the 144,000 on earth would show that down to this twentieth century fewer than 144,000 finished their earthly course in faithfulness.

  While some persons may be inclined to think that more persons must surely have been involved even as far back as the early centuries of the Common Era, actual proof to this effect is completely lacking. Today it is impossible even to establish how many persons were killed, much less the number of those who proved faithful to death. (is this true?) "We have practically but few facts to go upon," writes Frederick John Foakes-Jackson in the book History of Christianity in the Light of Modern Knowledge. He further states: "The testimony to the persecution by Nero is recorded by two Roman historians, Tacitus and Suetonius, both of whom were very young when it occurred, and wrote in mature life. There is no contemporary Christian document describing it, though it may be alluded to in the book of Revelation. . . . Tertullian at the end of the second century is our authority that Nero and Domitian, because they were the two worst emperors in the first centuries, persecuted the Christians." Early in the third century C.E., Origen (a Christian writer and teacher) observed: "There have been but a few now and again, easily counted, who have died for the Christian religion."

  Much that has been written about Christian martyrs is embellished by tradition and therefore unreliable. For example, the martyrdom of Polycarp of the second century C.E. is described in Fox’s Book of Martyrs as follows: "He was . . . bound to a stake, and the faggots with which he was surrounded set on fire, but when it became so hot that the soldiers were compelled to retire, he continued praying and singing praises to God for a long time. The flames raged with great violence, but still his body remained unconsumed, and shone like burnished gold. It is also said, that a grateful odour like that of myrrh, arose from the fire, which so much astonished the spectators, that many of them were by that means converted to Christianity. His executioners finding it impossible to put him to death by fire, thrust a spear into his side, from which the blood flowed in such a quantity, as to extinguish the flame. His body was then consumed to ashes, by order of the proconsul lest his followers should make it an object of adoration."

  Whatever the source of Fox’s information, manifestly little of this account is truly historical. Nevertheless, if the allusion to the adoration of the remains of Polycarp is to be viewed as indicating the existence of relic worship among professed Christians of the second century C.E., this would be additional evidence that many at that time were not faithful worshipers of Jehovah God. Christians were under command to "worship God," not relics. (Rev. 19:10) In fact, idolaters are among those specifically named in the Scriptures as unfit to inherit the Kingdom.—1 Cor. 6:9, 10.

  While the WTS points to Origen as a reliable source, note what they said more recently.

  ***

  w01 7/15 p. 31 Origen—How Did His Teaching Affect the Church? ***

  By mixing Bible teachings with Greek philosophy, Origen’s theology became littered with error, and the consequences were disastrous for Christendom. For instance, though most of Origen’s wild speculations were later rejected, his views about the "eternal generation" of Christ helped to lay the foundation for the non-Biblical doctrine of the Trinity. The book The Church of the First Three Centuries observes: "The taste for philosophy [introduced by Origen] was destined not to be soon extinct." With what result? "The simplicity of the Christian faith was corrupted, and an infinity of errors flowed into the Church."
• 

  Gill

  Thanks Blondie!

  When you get to read all this c$%*! again, it reminds me how superstitious the JW cult really is. You will be (maybe) safeguarded if you stay 'obedient to the org. and the GB'. A bit like, not walking under a ladder, or throwing salt over your shoulder when you spill some. But, then you'll only be safeguarded as a group not individually. What the hell's that supposed to mean, and so what's the point of superstitiously going to all those boring meetings, field service etc. It's all Superstition, in my opinion anyway and as I remember feeling about it when I was a sad JW.

  'Oh no! I've missed a meeting. Jehovah won't protect me and my family now until I attend another meeting. Oh my God! What have I done! Sadly, and honestly, that's the kind of idiot dumb ass I was and I know many others were and still are. Fear drives the ordinary JW!

  Reminds me also of my dying aunt who constantly asked 'why me? What have I done wrong that I have to suffer so badly? I went to all the meetings and out on field service and put Jehovah first all the time. Why me?'

  As I said before, it's all superstition!
• 

  BluesBrother

  "excuse me Brother elder, may I ask a question from today's study?

  Certainly, ask away

  Jehovah safeguards those who hope in him, right?

  Yes, according to Ps 40 : 11

  Well, p 2 says "It does not mean immunity from suffering or persecution, and p5 says we are not shielded from the tragedies common to life. it only says that "One is protected in a Spiritual Way so as to be able to maintain a fine standing before God" (p 2)

  So will Jehovah protect us from becoming "Spritually sick"?

  No, that is our responsibility.

  I know. We have to put up a fight as Paul said in I Cor 9.27.

  So if We are not safeguarded physically, and we still have to take care of our own spirituality, how the hell is Jehovah safeguarding us??

  Beware of "Foolish and ignorant questions, my brother"
• 

  heathen

  The real sick part is they will never admit any of it as dogma but as some sort of light . Today there are at least a billion people that claim to be christian . One third of the worlds population . Somehow God completely over looks most of them for the calling of co rulership . I do think tho that only those that die as martyrs really qualify . You really couldn't show greater love for God or neighbor than to risk your life in the preaching conversion work . I really doubt that those at brooklyn even qualify because they usually die of old age or illness , which if you died of illness was considered to be that you were guilty of sin .