Holy Spirit! Baptisim of fire??

by mad max 5 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • mad max
    mad max

    Wanted to know if the Holy Spirit is the same thing when people talk about being babtised with fire. Does'nt sound the same.

    Reason being is when I went to this church end Jan I accepted Jesus into my life (can you believe it, I was supposed to do that when I became a JW or when I got babtised in 1982. Just recentley got announced that I am no longer a JW) anyway I felt then that I received the Holy Spirit and had it quicken in me.

    Now other people say to me "Have I been babtised in the Holy Spirit?" is this now different? is this the babtisim of fire? or is it the same Holy Spirit I knew God placed in me when I accepted His Son.

    You must know all this is sooooooo different to what we were taught as JW.

    Ta

  • Honesty
    Honesty

    I also was annointed with the Holy Spirit when I turned to Christ in prayer, admitted my many sins, asked for forgiveness for denying Him for so many years while I was worshipping the Governing Body of JW's and lost my soul to Him. My life is totally opposite than what it was before I let Christ into my heart. I have experienced physical healing that has my doctors baffled and confused. I have been blessed with spiritual riches that are beyond description. I have literally seen Christ in several visions when He gave me instructions in explicit details regarding things He wanted me to do for Him. I have been directed by Divine Appointment to speak to several individuals who appeared no different than anyone else but who had been praying for someone to help them know God. I have had my mind opened up so that I can understand scriptures, what they mean and how they are in total harmony with the rest of the bible. I have seen Him bind Satan and keep him from doing me harm. I have been able to grasp and understand biblical Greek vocabulary, language and writings. So much so that one of my pastors who studied Greek in college stared at me for a long, long time during a worship service when he was sitting beside me and a visiting missionary was describing his experiences to our church because I was translating his English into biblical Greek under my breath faster than the missionary was speaking into the microphone. Can I explain any of this? No, and I don't understand it either. It defies human experience. Yet, it is more real than reality itself. Almost like another dimension of time and space. I don't feel crazy or weird. I do feel an intense warmth inside that surpasses any feeling I have ever experienced. If you have any similar feelings and/or experiences you know it is because Christ lives in you, too. Those who are dying refute, deny and scorn anyone who glorifies God by speaking about such things.. To those who are alive in Christ, it is the power of the cross.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Ahem...

    MadMax,

    The doctrine of a "Baptism of Spirit (and fire)" distinct from the gift of Spirit associated either with water baptism (traditional stance) or conversion (mainstream Evangelicals) is a characteristic of Pentecostal or similar churches. To them such "baptism of Spirit" is mainly evidenced by glossolaly ("speaking in tongues").

    (Resisting temptation to ask Honesty for a Greek translation of the above... )

  • mad max
    mad max

    Wow Honesty, what a blessing. I never thought that I would get or have Christ live in me, but I have once I accepted him into my life. Its true what he says "Just believe".

    Have been praying for the gifts to be imparted to me, especially the one on insight into the scriptures, just feel the need to know EVERYTHING NOW. Prehaps I am holding back because of what I believed before, but praying for grace in that. Just have to wait and see, because that is what the Lord told me. Suppose I just want to rush Him because of the overwheming love I have.

    And thanks Narkissos, its easy when you see it in writing.

  • hmike
    hmike

    Mad Max, It has to be rough on many of those who come out of JW and join Christian churches in that before, you were told what to believe, what to read, what not to read, and when you could learn. You were spoon-fed WT doctrine and expected not to deviate. Then you come out into the Christian world and there are all these different denominations and independent churches with their different understandings and teachings, and you are left on your own to sort it all out. Or maybe you immediately join a particular church and learn their teaching, only to find out that other Christians have different views which they believe are just as, if not more, justifiable than yours. In short, ex-JWs must now learn to think for themselves. It can be enough to drive some back into JW, or away from Christianity altogether. I know JWs point to this "confusion" as evidence they have the truth ("God is not the author of confusion" they would say). Your reference to being baptized by fire comes from a statement by John the Baptist: "I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire" (Matt. 3:11, also Luke 3:16). There is disagreement in interpretation over what the fire refers to. In your reference, the fire is associated by your group with the "tongues of fire" that appeared over the 12 apostles at Pentecost when they proceeded to speak in foreign languages they could not have known, so the fire is directly associated with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit and would be considered a good thing. The other interpretation is that the fire John refers to is the fire of judgment, for he goes on to say, "His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering the wheat into his barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire" (Matt. 3:12, also Luke 3:17). I personally lean toward the latter interpretation. Isaiah 66:15-16 tells of the fire of judgment on the earth, and Isaiah 4:4 speak of fire as a cleansing agent. Also, the "tongues of fire" never appear again in the book of Acts where manifestations of the Holy Spirit are mentioned. This "baptism of the Holy Spirit" comes exclusively from the book of Acts. It's relevance for today is, frankly, a source of controversy. All Christian churches I know of that hold to the Apostle's Creed agree that a person receives the Holy Spirit when they turn to Jesus as Savior and Lord--this is necessary for eternal life, and these people are referred to as being "born again" (from the book of John, Chapter 3). Some groups, most notably the Pentecostals, hold that there is a second gift, a filling of the Holy Spirit, that manifests as speaking in an unknown (unknown to the speaker) language. Typically, they cite Acts 8 where Philip proclaimed Christ in a city in Samaria. The people had believed and been baptized, then in vs. 14-17: "When the apostles in heard that they had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit." (See also Acts 19:1-7). The majority of churches maintain that there is only one gift of the Holy Spirit when the person believes, and cite Paul in Romans 6 where he writes about being "baptized into Christ." There are exegetical (interpretative) problems for those who want to make a doctrine out of this "second blessing." While I don't deny that it does happen, to make it the rule for all Christians cannot be supported, IMO, from Scripture. The main controversy over this stems from the problem that it creates two classes of Christians, the "haves" and the "have nots." Whether intentionally or not, those who have not experienced this are left to feel cheated, deprived, or that they do not have faith by the words of those who claim they have (some may make the claim just to feel they are part of the "haves" group). I agree that sometimes the Holy Spirit does manifest Himself in miraculous ways, and if that happens to you--rejoice. And if it doesn't--rejoice. Don't make getting this experience your priority, and don't permit yourself to get depressed if it doesn't happen. Just continue to seek God's leading for your life and what He would give you. More valuable than the spectacular manifestations are the subtle ways He helps us in our daily lives. As a pastor of mine once said, "What's important is not how high you jump, but how you walk when you come down."

  • mad max
    mad max

    hmike thanks, really good info you gave to me. That is what i was feeling like, lost and have to find my way around the bible myself, well with the Spirit in me teaching me etc, I was so used to the way JW teach, like bible studies, return visits etc that I think I expected it of this same fellowship I am in at the moment (still thinking of that though) yes need to walk and TRY and not just run ahead of myself. Just so excited that eyes are open to all these different things, which are new to me. ta

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