df'ing in absentia...

by MoodyBlue 9 Replies latest jw friends

  • MoodyBlue
    MoodyBlue

    I was wondering... can the elders df you in absentia if you haven't admitted to doing anything wrong??

    My ex wanted his scriptural grounds for a divorce and i told him he had them. He went to the elders with this info and they called me up last night to try and get me to confess ( which i didn't- i told them it was none of thier business) they told me that they were having a judicial for me wed at 7, and i said i wouldn't be there. so, can they df me anyway?? i'd rather just disassociate than have them kick me out... i have no intention of going back, but i'd like to leave on my terms instead of theirs...

  • Jim Lad
    Jim Lad

    My sister in law was DF'ed in her absence in AB, Canada in like '92. Although it was a confirmed fact that she was living with a guy in her apt. I was working with an elder at the time and the crew used to meet before going to work at the pulp mill where she was a waitress and she told him that she didn't want to talk to them. I don't think she denied the fact that she was living with Chad though....announcement later that week....

  • somebody
    somebody

    Hi, MoodyBlue.

    From the Flock/rule book written by men, for elders to obey. I included the url in case you wish to read more.

    If the accused repeatedly fails to come to the hearing,
    the committee will proceed with the hearing but will not

    110

    "Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock "

    make a decision until evidence and any testimony by
    witnesses are considered.

    The committee should not take action against a person
    unless the evidence clearly proves this necessary.

    Failure to appear before the committee is not in itself
    proof of guilt.

    What kind of evidence is acceptable?

    There must be two or three eyewitnesses, not just persons
    repeating what they have heard; no action can be taken if
    there is only one witness. (Deut. 19:15;Jol1ll 8:17)

    http://home2.inet.tele.dk/carloc/unit5b.htm

    peace,
    somebody

  • Francois
    Francois

    Three years after I stopped going to the KH, the local gestapo got wind that I was smoking and sent over a detachment of their best and brightest (read: IQ = 79).

    After a couple of meetings in which I had my fun with them (like pointing out that I had worked with brother A in his cleaning business between contracts once, and noted he had an electric meter that he used to steal electricity from Georgia power; and brother B was three-quarters shit-faced there in my living room on Mattingly & Moore, his rot-gut of choice; and brother C, a gutter installer, was using inferior materials and charging superior prices), I told them they didn't have the objective moral authority to question me on an issue of subjective morality.

    Besides, I told them, as long as they tolerated in their midst the continuing presence as an elder of C.B. Mitchell, troll of some note famous for taking young publishers to Braves games and getting stinking drunk and for "skinning the sheep" (you know the kind, drunk on his own importance and authority and referring to himself constantly as a "glorious one") they could not claim any sensitivity to moral issues of any kind.

    In short, I said, you guys have no moral authority to judge me in any way and to stop coming to my home; they would not be allowed in again.

    They DFed me a couple of months later. When the letter arrived, certified, I returned it unopened. But I know that's what it contained. I was - get this - living with my JW parents at the time, having just gone through a divorce, and MY OWN FATHER spread the DFing news throughtout the entire family even though my parents lived 300 miles from the congregation just outside Atlanta, and my JW family lived no where near Atlanta. I continued to live with my parents, though, even though they weren't even supposed to be speaking with me. I guess you can pick and choose among the rules that apply to you and the ones that don't

    Anyway, yeah, they can and do try people in absentia in their ecclesiastical kangaroo courts. Gives'em a sense of power.

    Francois

    Where it is a duty to worship the Sun you can be sure that a study of the laws of heat is a crime.

  • Mulan
    Mulan

    I know of two people who didn't go to their hearings and they were both df'd. You WILL be disfellowshipped. Don't blame you for not going.

    Marilyn (a.k.a. Mulan)

  • jst2laws
    jst2laws

    Dear Moodyblue,

    I hope you are not overly anxious about this. Yes they can take action without your attending, but they have to give you several oppertunities to meet with them. Then they can only take action on the testimony of two witnesses to serious wrong OR, and this is a broad one, "Strong circumstantial EVIDENCE". The following from the Paying Attention to the Flock Book sums it up.

    [PATF - UNIT_5B ]
    Strong circumstantial EVIDENCE, such as pregnancy or evi-
    dence (testified to by at least two witnesses) that the
    accused stayed all night in the same house with a person
    the opposite sex ( or in the same house with a known
    homosexual) under improper circumstances is acceptable.

    If it is any consolation, I here the service department is backing off on taking action on the 'staying over night' evidence. They prefer something more substantial. If they dont have it, they cant take action. However, some cowboys do what they want regardless of the guidlines but you can "Appeal" and win in that case.
    Hope this is helpful.
    Jst2laws

  • Seeker
    Seeker

    MoodyBlue,

    No, they cannot df you for that, for they don't have enough evidence if you don't confess. However, some elders don't follow the rules and do what they want. If you have those types of elders, they might very well df you just based on the words of your ex. Basically, it's hard to predict unless we know your elders and whether they are the types to follow the rules or not.

    As for DA or DF, keep in mind that both are on "their terms." They invented both rules, and either method will suit them just fine. You really want to exit on your terms? Just drift away -- they can't stand that. If they don't DF you, for lack of evidence, then you can keep them at a distance forever and there isn't anything they can do about it (unless they "catch" you doing something they consider wrong). That truly will be on your terms, not theirs.

  • Anchor
    Anchor

    I love the expression used elsewhere -- thugs. What an apt description! Thugs do what they want to. Never mind what the Flock book says, never mind procedure, they get their stripes and their jollies from stomping their way through, damn any little peon who gets in the way. or even someone who has humbly served for many many decades.

    Cite procedure all you want to, right now what I see is SURVIVAL. So they do anything they damned well please.

    They can't disfellowship you for "that"? They have to WHAT? Where have you kind souls been? You have spent your life playing by the rules, but that has all changed. They can damn well conjure up anything and say you have disassociated yourself by your conduct. Who the hell is going to challenge it? No appeals commitee will rock the boat. Service department backing off? THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT RUNS SERVICE.

    The jack-booted thugs do not have to believe they are protecting the precious organization, they just do it under that guise. They just like their power. Qualified men are long gone, and in the vacuum a group of brown shirts has taken their place. You nice guys are in the minority and a quickly disappearing breed. That's not my humble opinion, that's fact.

    Totally disillusioned and ready to come out of my dub closet.

    Anchor

  • Richie
    Richie

    True, they CAN disfellowship you if you do not go the Judicial Committee - they reason that if there is enough circumstancial eveidence (or hearsay from other brothers), then by you NOT attending a JC, in fact what you are doing is admit you're guilty by the absence of you; it's as simple as that...they may decide to hold another meeting and meanwhile trying to find out why it was you could not attend the JC - they will then arbitrarily hold another JC expecting you will not be there and conjure up a make-believe case to "evict" you - I know as I have been there myself - The ONLY thing you can do: threathen them with a lawsuit, but this had to be done to Brooklyn headquarters - you write a letter co-signed by an attorney (which will cost you at least $150)and state the facts that there is absolutely no evidence of wrongdoing and in the event they will disfellowship you, you will then take legal action against the congregation, against the particular elders and against the Society - I promise you that this will work 100% - The Head Quarters in Brooklyn will then forward an official letter to abstain from disfellowshipping you alltogether!!! Try it and you will be successful - For me, it came too late and only found out after the damage was done -

    Regards, Richie

  • BERNARD
    BERNARD

    Just DA'd yourself don't give them the satisfaction of thinking there right. inform them on how wrong they are and tell them to stick it sideways. Just my opinion. I Da'd myself and told THEM ASAP AND THE REASONS WHY . TELL THEM TO GET BUSY LIVINGFOREVER AND STAY OUT OF YOUR LIFE.

    THE REAL TRUTH STANDS THE TEST OF TIME, IT WILL NOT CHANGE, IF IT DOES ITS A LIE.The sun will rise, The sun will set,AN EXAMPLE of The real TRUTH nobody can change.

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