What does it MEAN, to be Baptised....

by LittleToe 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  LittleToe

  A few years ago, while I was still a JW, I started a topic on Baptism:
  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/14060/1.ashx

  I wasn't aware of the in's-and-out's of the subject, just that I felt that my own baptism as a JW was somehow invalid, and wanted to do it properly. After leaving, now as a Christian, I got Baptised.

  For JWs, the two baptismal questions (asked on the day of baptism, but which have changed through time) are as follows (thanks to TJ):

  February 15, 1964 Watchtower, pg 127:

  1 Have you repented of sin with such restitution as you are able, and are you trusting in the merit of Christ's sacrifice for the forgiveness of your sins and the basis of your justification?
  2 Have you made a full consecration of yourself with all the powers that you possess, talent, money, time, influence, all to the Lord, to be used faithfully in His service, even unto death?"

  May 1, 1973 Watchtower, pg 280:

  1 Have you repented of your sins and turned around, recognizing yourself before Jehovah God as a condemned sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation precedes from him, the Father, through his Son Jesus Christ?
  2 On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit?

  June 1, 1985 Watchtower, p30:

  1 On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?
  2 Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization?

  I don't know if they've changed again, subsequent to the newly released Organised book.

  Given that one of the main bible texts discussing it is Matt.28:19, it seems a shame that they warp the ritual by inserting interpretation.

  This is just a starter for ten, as I'd like to turn this thread more towards the very meaning of the ritual itself (and maybe Leo, Pete and Narkissos would care to elaborate with some of their significant knowledge and threads).
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  Qcmbr

  To be fully immersed in the water, by someone with authority, has the following significance to me:
  
  1/ Water represents the washing away of sins.
  2/ Baptism is in similitude of the death of Christ - we are buried under the water and die as to our old life , we are then born again (from the water similar to birth from water) to a new covenant and a new way of living with a new name taken upon us.
  
  Baptism does not join you to the church - it is an ordinance that washes away former sins and is the physical part to the covenant made with Jesus.
  
  The baptismal covenant is renewed each week while taking the sacrament (again in remeberance of the Christ.)
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  marsal

  I was baptized a JW, but later, as a Christian, I knew I should be re-baptized when a pastor explained the following to me: baptism is an outward expression of what has already occured inwardly in a believer (accepting Jesus as Savior). Thus, baptism is a step of obedience in publicly proclaiming your faith in Christ.

  Marianne
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  marsal

  I was also told that in baptism, a believer also identifies with Christ's death, burial and resurrection.

  Romans 6:3-4: "Or don't you know that all of us baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life".

  It was explained to me that the action of being immersed in the water pictures being buried with Christ. The action of coming out of the water pictures Christ's resurrection.

  Marianne
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  Daytona

  Baptism is a symbolic dying to our former life and a resurrection to a new life which is dedicated to following the Christ in all things.

  My thoughts,

  Daytona
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  codeblue

  Lt. Toe,

  Thanks for quoting what it means according to the WTBS as of 1964- 85...

  I have been searching for those 2 final questions and when they changed.

  Codeblue
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  Narkissos

  The Pauline interpretation of baptism (Romans 6, immersion as a symbol-sacrament of the believer's union with Christ's death-burial and resurrection; also 1 Corinthians 12:13; Galatians 3:27; Colossians 2:12) has certainly become the main standard in Christianity. It is echoed in many places (Mark 10:38f; Luke 12:50; 1 Peter 3:21).

  However baptism (e.g. John's, from which "Christian" = Pauline baptism is carefully distinguished in Acts, e.g. 19:1ff) can be traced back at least to the Essene practice (which was repeated, not once and for all), which was itself derived of the priestly ceremonial bathing, and this testifies (against Acts) that the link to the Holy Spirit is not especially Christian, cf. 1QS (I have not found an English translation, so this is tentative):

  By the Spirit of true Counsel as to the ways of man all his iniquities will be expiated, when he beholds the light of truth; and by the Holy Spirit of the Community, in His truth, he will be purified from all his iniquities; and by the Spirit of uprightness and humility his sin will be expiated. And by the humility of his soul toward all the precepts of God his flesh will be purified, when he will be sprinkled with purification water and he will sanctify himself in living water. (3:6-9)

  God, by His truth, will clean all the works of everyone... to purify him from all impious actions by the Spirit of Holiness; and he will make the Spirit of truth spring upon him as purification water. (4:20f.)

  An interesting Judeo-Christian directive, not referring to the Pauline interpretation of baptism, is to be found in Didache 7 (this is probably the closest to Matthew 28):

  And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have no living water, baptize into other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm. But if you have neither, pour out water three times upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whoever else can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.
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  peacefulpete

  Baptism is a very ancient rite found in a number of prechristian cults. However the roots appear to have sprouted from the water/chaos battles of the heros and gods of myth. In time what was once the experience of the Gods became the rite or initiation acted out by the worshippers. This perrenial theme of conquering evil/chaos (symbolised by water) was well established by the time the Essenes came along. They were obsessed with purity and righteousness and so it seemed a natural rite to in corporate. John the Baptizer was apparently an Essene or sectarian with similar baptism rites. There is no OT directive for baptism as a rite though of course the chaos/water battle is reflected in any number of stories. Naturally a number of influences came together to eventually form the Christian rite of water baptism including the death symbolism (sharing in death of fallen savior, Mithraism and Paulinism) and ritual cleaness (Essenes, washing of sacrifices from a number of Mid-Eastern cults).
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  Carmel

  THE TRUE MEANING OF BAPTISM BY WATER AND FIRE

  In the Gospel according to St John, Christ has said: 'Except a man be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.'[1] The priests have interpreted this into meaning that baptism is necessary for salvation. In another Gospel it is said: 'He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire'.[2]
  [1 St John iii, 5.]
  [2 St Matthew iii, 11.]

  Thus the water of baptism and the fire are one! It cannot mean that the 'water' spoken of is physical water, for it is the direct opposite of 'fire', and one destroys the other. When in the Gospels, Christ speaks of 'water', He means that which causes life, for without water no worldly creature can live -- mineral, vegetable, animal and man, one and all, depend upon water for their very being. Yes, the latest scientific discoveries prove to us that even mineral has some form of life, and that it also needs water for its existence.

  Water is the cause of life, and when Christ speaks of water, He is symbolizing that which is the cause of Everlasting Life.

  This life-giving water of which He speaks is like unto fire, for it is none other than the Love of God, and this love means life to our souls.

  By the fire of the Love of God the veil is burnt which separates us from the Heavenly Realities, and with clear vision we are enabled to struggle onward and upward, ever progressing in the paths of virtue and holiness, and becoming the means of light to the world.

  There is nothing greater or more blessed than the Love of God! It gives healing to the sick, balm to the wounded, joy and consolation to the whole world, and through it alone can man attain Life Everlasting. The essence of all religions is the Love of God, and it is the foundation of all the sacred teachings.

  It was the Love of God that led Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, that strengthened Joseph in Egypt and gave to Moses courage and patience.

  Through the Love of God, Christ was sent into the world with His inspiring example of a perfect life of self-sacrifice and devotion, bringing to men the message of Eternal Life. It was the Love of God that gave Muhammad power to bring the Arabs from a state of animal degradation to a loftier state of existence.

  God's Love it was that sustained the Báb and brought him to his supreme sacrifice, and made his bosom the willing target for a thousand bullets.

  Finally, it was the Love of God that gave to the East Bahá'u'lláh, and is now sending the light of His teaching far into the West, and from Pole to Pole.

  Thus I exhort each of you, realizing its power and beauty, to sacrifice all your thoughts, words and actions to bring the knowledge of the Love of God into every heart.

  DISCOURSE AT 'L'ALLIANCE SPIRITUALISTE'

  (Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 81)
• 

  LittleToe

  I'm going to be out for the day, but I just wanted to have a quick read and say a "thank you" to those who have contributed so far!

  Back later, thanks!