A question for Christians who do not believe in evolution (Not an argument)

by logansrun 42 Replies latest jw friends

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Terry:

    Scientists are their own critics by virtue of the fact the Scientific Method requires that every theory be testable.

    Theologians work to this premise, too (within the bounds of the materials they work with).
    I'm not aware of many scientists (though there are some physicists in this camp) who strip back their method to the simplicity of "1 + 1 = 2", before progressing onto the deeper doctrine of scientific method. We all work on the basis of some foundations, which are rearely challenged until they need to be.

    As for past "tradition", things like Newtonian ideas are surely now being challenged in much the same way as Constantinian one's are in the theological world?

    And thus "string theory" and "evolution" replace "cause and effect" and "young earth creationism", little by little...

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Bradley:
    There you go theorising and pontificating again, without getting your feet wet.

    The whole premise of "grace" is that we are unworthy.

    Discuss.

  • logansrun
    logansrun

    Little Toe,

    I didn't say that most Christians feel they are "worthy" of Grace, only that humanity is in a special position. And, in a sense, they are obviously "worthy" of Grace from God, otherwise he would not give it.

    (I've been in a very Christian frame of mind ever since the Pope died. Strange).

    B.

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    :"Theologians work to this premise, too (within the bounds of the materials they work with)."

    Can you give an example of this?

    :"We all work on the basis of some foundations,"

    Comparing the religious to the scientific, what would you call a religious "foundation" that you've seen worked from (or as a valid starting point)?

  • logansrun
    logansrun

    I just wanted to add that you like just like the Great Teacher in your avatar, Little Toe. "Bring the young children to me..."

    B.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Six:
    I'm specifically discussing this from the perspective of their independant spheres (that should answer your second question without elaborating with specific doctrine, which frankly bores me ).

    As for the first question, the whole point of apologetics is to attempt (vainly) to get verses of scripture to marry up without discord. Scriptures are sifted through, and philosophical theories applied and debated ad nauseum.

    Bradley:
    Frame of mind and mindset are two entirely different things

    The orthodox Christian doctrine of "the Fall" extends beyond the human (Rom.8:22).

    LT, of the "unorthodox Christian" class

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe
    I just wanted to add that you like just like the Great Teacher in your avatar, Little Toe. "Bring the young children to me..."

    Oh shyte.
    That brings back bad memories - thanks for nothing!!!

    ~goes off looking for a better avatar~...

  • MegaDude
    MegaDude

    Hi Logan,

    I don't want to get your thread off track but I did read "Glimpses of the Devil." I don't know what to make of it. Peck is intelligent and I really liked "The Road Less Traveled." But I had the impression he may have simply fallen under influence of Malachi Martin, whose reputation is controversial.

  • Terry
    Terry
    Terry:
    Scientists are their own critics by virtue of the fact the Scientific Method requires that every theory be testable.

    Theologians work to this premise, too (within the bounds of the materials they work with).
    I'm not aware of many scientists (though there are some physicists in this camp) who strip back their method to the simplicity of "1 + 1 = 2", before progressing onto the deeper doctrine of scientific method. We all work on the basis of some foundations, which are rearely challenged until they need to be.

    As for past "tradition", things like Newtonian ideas are surely now being challenged in much the same way as Constantinian one's are in the theological world?

    And thus "string theory" and "evolution" replace "cause and effect" and "young earth creationism", little by little...

    Huh?

    What have you been smoking?

    What is the actual definition of the SCIENTIFIC METHOD?

    Scientific method

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

    The scientific method or process is considered fundamental to the scientific investigation and acquisition of new knowledge based upon physical evidence. Scientists propose new assertions about our world in the form of theories: observations, hypotheses, and deductions. Predictions from these theories are tested by experiment. If a prediction turns out to be correct, the theory survives. Any theory which is cogent enough to make predictions can then be tested reproducibly in this way. The method is commonly taken as the underlying logic of scientific practice. The scientific method is essentially an extremely

    Now really, LittleToe!

    As far as Newtonian Physics is concerned your statements are either not fully informed or inadvertantly misleading. What has changed is going from the MACRO world to the MICRO world. A different set of standards have been introduced at the fundamental particle level of inquiry that allows a more productive discussion to take place.

    Mathematics allows us to apply methodologies that are useful. What do I mean by useful? It means you don't go beyond what is needed to do the present job.

    In America our dollars and cents computations (for example) take the decimal to 2 figures only. In other countries it might be 3 figures.

    Gasoline: $2.12 or

    Gasoline: $2.124 either way you aren't destroying a useful description of the transaction.

    In Physics we observe the motion of bodies and the mathematics is expressed in a broad way which is really quite successful. Otherwise we could not send rockets to the moon.

    But, at the Quantum Level the same approach would be "a miss is as good as a mile".

    So, Newtonian Physics is not obsolete at all. It is the wrong approach for quantum discovery.

    How far away is the moon, for example?

    Whatever answer you give is an average. It can vary from 221,463 to 252,710 miles from Earth. We could say about 239,000 miles and not shatter any commandments. But, if you want to be accurate you have to know those distances are expressed from the center of the Earth to the center of the Moon! We aren't talking surface to surface. Does that render our general understanding of the above "wrong" or merely convenient/precise?

    The dichotomy is good/better/best and that is all we should need to introduce about Newton vs Feynmann.

    Terry

  • Terry
    Terry
    I didn't say that most Christians feel they are "worthy" of Grace, only that humanity is in a special position. And, in a sense, they are obviously "worthy" of Grace from God, otherwise he would not give it.

    You might want to re-examine what you said here (above).

    GRACE is not defined that way. That is why I rant and rave about it being a violation of Justice.

    Under GRACE you have UNdeserved, UNMERITED, favor from God. If you are "worthy" that nullifies grace itself.

    Surely you see that.

    Grace, as I said before, is a fallacy because it only exists (as a sotieriology) to prop up the other phoney doctrine of INHERITED (i.e. Adamic sin) SIN.

    UNdeserved favor would violate God's justice because man (if guilty of being born as an offspring of Adam) cannot deserve life. It must be granted to him undeservedly. This makes one of two things apparent:

    1.God is UNJUST for demanding death of Adam's offspring because they did nothing at birth that could violate God's standards of behavior. Then, the behavior is taught by parents (who themselves aren't perfect) and obstacles are placed before them to correct behavior by the world, the flesh and the Devil.

    2.God simply chooses (as in "whim") to regard humans one way today and the opposite way tomorrow based on Him willing that an innocent victim die in the place of a deserving criminal in the name of "???Justice??".

    It fairly boggles the mind.

    Terry

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