Melmac, i hardly think that fair this is the beliefs and doctrine section :S
I'm searching for answers....
by nedryerson 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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garybuss
A stranger to me walked up to me and said: "Are you saved?'. I asked him, "From what?". He just turned around and walked away.
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adelmaal
Welcome to the forum! Stick around. You will see many different topics here with the whole gammut of opinions.
A true Jehovah's Witness would be confused by your question and would run around in circles attempting to answer it in such a way that God and Jesus are not one and the same. I am guessing you realize that JWs don't believe in the Trinity doctrine and you are trying to draw them out by having them explain these scriputures to you.
Are you truly confused by these scriptures? Are you truly questioning whether or not the Trinity (meaning God and Jesus are one and the same) is a truthful doctrine? Or are you trying to debate it with a JW?
Personally, I believe God is the Alpha and the Omega the beginning and the end because he always existed. I believe Jesus is the First and the Last because he was God's first creation and he will always exist. Just my opinion. Not speaking as a JW since I left that religion quite some time ago.
If you have a legitimate question and are searching for an answer then by all means ask away. If your motivation is to trick a JW into debating doctrines with you then you are in the wrong place. Unless, of course, you want to strike up a conversation with Schizm. He'll debate with you until the cows come home.
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mnb77
this is the reason I believe the trinity look at things but any way,
Revelation 1:8
(1) "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."
1. The use of the phrase, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty" has led to a debate. Is God the Father or God the Son referred to in verse 8? In the parallel passages of Rev. 1:17; 21:6; 22:1, Christ is equated with Almighty God. Yet, the Father is consistently identified with the same titles. Trying to decide which member of the Godhead is identified in verse 8 is impossible. It is as if both members are speaking at the same time. This may be closer to the truth John intends. This prophecy stands as the unanimous consent of God the Father and God the Son.
Revelation 21:5
(1) And He who sits on the throne said, (2) "Behold, I am making all things new." (3) And He said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true."
1. And He who sits on the throne said = is a direct reference to God the Father. This is one of the few direct references to the Father in the Revelation. The Father speaks.
2. Behold, I am making all things new = is a bit strange at first glance. One would think that given the context that this sentence would read, "I have made all things new." However, as it stands, it appears that God is still in the act of creating all things new.
3. He said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true" = applies to the whole book of Revelation and not just this section.
Revelation 21:6
(1) And He said to me, "It is done. (2) I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. (3) I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost.
1. And He said to me, "It is done?" = indicates completion. Unfortunately, it is not clear what is finished. In context, one would assume that God?s new creation is finished, but this is guessing.
2. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end = basically is two ways of saying the same thing. The phrase focuses on the absolute power and sovereignty of God.
3. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost = is metaphorical way of referring to eternal life. What was promised for thousands of years is now fulfilled. Progressive sanctification finally results in absolute glorification.
Revelation 21:7
(1) He who overcomes shall inherit these things, and (2) I will be his God and he will be My son.
1. He who overcomes shall inherit these things = reiterates the promise. The overcomer gets "all these things." This refers to the list outlined in verse four above.
2. I will be his God and he will be My son = is singular, nevertheless it applies to all of those who are overcomers. This is a great promise. Overcomers will be adopted as "sons" of God. All the rights and privileges of sonship come with this promise. This is beyond human comprehension. The road from being the objects of ridicule and scorn to "sonship" is the heart of this revelation. We are sons of God.
Revelation 22:12-13
"Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."
Some use passages such as this to support a claim that the return of Christ to rapture the church to heaven is imminent (could happen at any moment). A position rendered nonsensical by 2000 years of human history. In what sense can the Lord?s return be termed "a quick coming?" Unless the term quick has changed, it cannot refer to time. It has been 2000 years since the Lord returned to Glory. Quick can refer to the manner of the Lord?s return. In other words, the Lord?s return will happen very quickly. The Lord emphasizes the quickness of His return because the level of suffering the believers will be experiencing during the persecution of Satan/Antichrist against the saints will be unparalleled. Once the Lord sets out to rescue the elect, it will happen very quickly ? in the twinkling of any eye!
this is how i see it!!! no so much a JW, but the other answers should show you how far they swayed from what it says!
mnb77
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mnb77
double posting sorry