Discipline for Lying -- Opinions Please

by adelmaal 23 Replies latest jw friends

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  Mulan

  In my opinion, having raised 4 kids (who also were known to lie) and having been a kid who lied, I suggest you not make a huge issue of this.

  I remember very clearly being caught in a lie when I was 10 years old. My mother made me write John 8:44 (about Satan being the father of the lie) everyday after school, seven times for seven days.

  All that did was make me very careful not to get caught in a lie again.

  It seems to me you made too many punishments for not a serious lie...........and yes, I do see degrees of lying.

  I don't remember punishing the kids for lying, but they could tell you for sure. I know we talked to them about how telling the truth is so much easier, and how you always remember the truth, but lies are hard to keep track of and for some reason your brain doesn't remember them well. I also remember telling them all I wanted was the truth, and that if they told me the truth I would believe them and trust them.
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  adelmaal

  i have been on the phone trying to find a counselor who deals with children today. i have received some referrals and i have left some messages. i would my daughter to be able to talk to someone about what is going on and how she is feeling so we can better help her out with the drama she's been experiencing this year.

  it just does not seem she should be already going through the stage where she gets caught cheating, half-asses her school work, lies about detention, etc. she's only 10 years old for pete's sake!

  it just makes it that much harder that she lives in two households and we cannot control what goes on when she is with her dad and all his jw relatives. i'm sure the expectations are high over there. i was not raised in "the troof". i started studying as a teenager so i have a hard time relating to what it must be like to have that kind of pressure. not to mention the fact that they do not instill a great attitude when it comes to school.

  thanks for all your advice
• 

  ballistic

  i have been on the phone trying to find a counselor

  I really thought I had seen too many American movies before I joined this board - but I guess it's really true, you guys see counselors over all kinds of things, seemingly at all ages, kinda strange.
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  adelmaal

  It seems to me you made too many punishments for not a serious lie...........and yes, I do see degrees of lying.

  i do agree that she was definitely feeling that the green ink pen all over her paper meant she did a bad job and was going to disappoint us. in the past we have told her that this teacher is way to critical and she should not worry so much about all the ink on her work. that's why it's surprising she even lied at all because she knows we think this particular teacher is to much a perfectionist.

  in my mind if she does not see that little lies eventually lead to big lies and that lying can eventually get her and others into serious trouble then she will see no need not to lie to cover things over. right now it's lying about a school paper and later on it could be lying about doing drugs. i agree that there are degrees of lying but at what point do you crack down on it?

  maybe i should backtrack. here's what happened the time she lost out on her birthday party.

  open book quiz at school. she didn't bother to look up the answers to the questions (she knows how to read but sometimes does have issues with grasping the concept behind what she reads). teacher had them each grade their own papers. my daughter got pretty much every answer wrong because she just wrote whatever came to mind (she said she was just being lazy and didn't feel like looking up all the answers). teacher had the children grade their own tests then went around the room and asked for the scores from each child. my daughter said, "99%". teacher called her up to the front knowing it was not true and gave her a detention for lying/cheating on her quiz. teacher sent home a note regarding detention, which my daughter did not show anyone. my daughter did not go to detention. teacher called home. to everyone involved this was not a minor issue. my daughter needed to know that it is not ok to cheat and lie to her teacher and then not be honest about her detention.

  while i can understand why she did what she did that still does not make it ok. i can see that getting to the heart of the matter and finding out why she is behaving this way is important and at the same time i also believe in consequences for our actions.

  i'm not sure taking away her overnight this weekend with her friends was that extreme. she is still going to her all day cheerleading event this saturday and it was already 8:00p by the time we sent her to her room with no tv, etc. she read a book or two and went to bed.

  i do want her to learn something from this though and that is why i was thinking that if she wrote a paper talking about honesty and how important it is that we trust one another it might help her to see why it hurts us when she lies.

  i think the therapist suggestion was a great one though because she is definitely going through a host of things this year between being in two different households, starting puberty, stressing about schoolwork and friends, etc.
• 

  adelmaal

  I really thought I had seen too many American movies before I joined this board - but I guess it's really true, you guys see counselors over all kinds of things, seemingly at all ages, kinda strange.

  i saw a therapist myself when i went through my divorce, disfellowshipping and exiting of "the troof". it helped me allot to have someone impartial to speak to about what was going on and she recommended some great self-help books. she was a good listener and really helped me to be able to get through a tough time in my life without beating myself up too much.

  no stygma about therapists here. i personally only went for a period of a few months and that's the only time i've ever seen a counselor. my children have not been to one yet but i am at the point with my daughter where i am not afraid to ask for help from a professional who counsels children on a regular basis.

  don't know if it's a difference in culture or not? we usually do have employee assistance plans her in the states which provide counseling to those who find a need be it for alcoholism, abuse, divorce, depression, etc.

  i'll let you know if it helps with my daughter. the therapists i have been speaking to are MFTs (marriage family therapists) so i am hoping the one we see will help us to better be able to work with our daughter to get to the heart of what is really going on and work on it with her.
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  GentlyFeral

  Maybe I will work with her on writing a paper about honesty rather than lying and why it is important that we be able to trust each other and communicate.

  
  Excellent - miles better than "lying is wicked and bad and wrong". Yes, do your best to convince her that "If I lie about having trouble, my parents can't help me."
  
  

  She will do the minimal effort required and half-ass everything just to plug her way through without really needing to try. Then when her lack of effort, cheating, avoiding, etc. catches up to her she lies to cover it up.

  
  
  So-called "laziness" is often, but not always, rooted in very subtle learning disorders that are hard to diagnose. You might brainstorm with her about laziness why schoolwork is so hard. Maybe she just can't focus on some things and the task just won't hold still so she can get a grip on it.
  
  

  AlmostAtheist said:
  
  

  If you punish lightly or not at all when the truth is told, then there is no encouragement to lie. Of course, there's little encouragement to avoid trouble, too, since simply admitting it gets you off the hook.

  Good point. The best "punishment" is to undo (or redo) the misdeed (or omission). I thoroughly understand cancelling your daughter's birthday party for lying about a whole stack of stuff, but I'd put it this way: "Since you skipped detention, you're going to have detention at home." Then find her some useful stuff to do related to the schoolwork trouble she's having.

  <homeschool mom persona>Something useful, yet interesting.</homeschool>

  But first, what about talking to her teacher to see if she could maybe get school credit for the work she's going to do while on "house detention"?

  Good luck with all of this...

  gently feral
• 

  adelmaal

  So-called "laziness" is often, but not always, rooted in very subtle learning disorders that are hard to diagnose. You might brainstorm with her about laziness why schoolwork is so hard. Maybe she just can't focus on some things and the task just won't hold still so she can get a grip on it.

  I have thought about her possibly having some kind of learning disability causing her to have trouble staying focused. Her mind does tend to wander allot. Hopefully, we can get her diagnosed if this is the case.

  Maybe my ex (her dad) has that same learning disability because you have to light a fire cracker under his butt to get him to do anything that takes a bit of effort . I always had a hard time getting homework done because it bored me so. I still aced my tests though and skated through with As and Bs. Maybe my daughter got the worst from both of us .
• 

  Seeking Knowledge

  Puberty is a big thing to deal with, my daughter started around the same age as yours did. It sounds to me she's dealing with conflict between you & dad and that's really too bad. If her dad is expecting perfection then he's expecting too much. ON the other hand, if he's saying "school isn't important" thats a big issue as well. Your daughter may be trying to please everyone & that is her problem. All you can do there is keep reassuring her that while lying is wrong, telling the truth won't get you into as much trouble.

  I would continue doing what you're doing. Talk to her, keep an open line of communication, let her know she can talk to you about ANYTHING and if she needs to confess, assure her you won't punish her for telling you, but she has to expect consequences for her actions. Let her know that you don't expect perfection from her, only her best, and if she shows that she's applying herself that's reward enough.

  I didn't put much pressure on my daughter, I did get lucky in that she's not like most teens (ok she's not like I was as a teen) but she's working to keep a 3.5 average in high school and gets upset when her grades fall close to C's. I tell her to do her best, and if she needs help I'll find it for her. She's not lying, but the pressure is there none-the less. Gotta laugh tho, the other nite I asked her what she was doing at this party she wanted to go to and she said "drugs & animal sacrifices" I can laugh about that knowing my daughter, she tries to be dramatic for me, but it doesn't work. She didn't come home stoned or covered in blood either!

  Off the subject a bit, Adelmaal sorry! Show her you support her as much as you can & chances are this is just a phase.

  SK
• 

  adelmaal

  I thoroughly understand cancelling your daughter's birthday party for lying about a whole stack of stuff, but I'd put it this way: "Since you skipped detention, you're going to have detention at home." Then find her some useful stuff to do related to the schoolwork trouble she's having.

  Great suggestion! I love creative parenting.
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  Frog

  As a JW kid lying became very much a part of everday life. If you told the truth you got beat, if you didn't you got beat, you just couldn't win. I've had to re-educate myself entirely these last years in being honest at all cost. It is really essential that your daughter gets through this sooner rather than later. I suggest a heart-to-heart is really in order. When I was controlled by fear not to do things, it wasn't enough to not do them. I wish so much that my parents taught me to do the right thing as a way of taking care of myself, protecting myself, and loving myself. She needs to know that she is the most important person in her life first, that others are secondary. She needs to accept her limitations and give credit where credit is due. It certainly sounds like you're daughter is an above average achiever, but somewhere in her mind she has this idea that she needs to aspire to some sort of perfect 10 on eveything, where do you think she has gotten that idea? Further too it would be beneficial for her to learn the value of Constructive Critisism, that's what we pay the teachers for afterall. We wouldn't be going to school if we in fact had no need of help and assistance. I'm sure she's a real sweetheart, and you sound like a wonderful mother. This is a really important subject to deal with, as if she takes it into her teenage years it will really diminish her self-worth subconsciously. All the best mum. froglett