The effects of exiting a cult

Sirona

I consider Jehovahs Witnesses to be a cult, or at least a high control group (cult-like).

I recognise within myself some side effects of having been a JW. Here is an interesting article dealing with cults (it does list some extreme cult tactics). I'm going to quote just part of the article regarding the effects on someone who has left a cult. I've highlighted the parts that I think effect me. It might help people on this forum realise where some of their feelings are coming from after leaving JWs.

http://www.factnet.org/Margaret_Thaler_Singer/Coercive_Persuasion_and_the_Problems_of_Ex_Cult_Members.html
Dr. Klaus Karbe - AGPF: Rehabilitation ... American Experiences, 1981 Page 37
Difficulties of former sect members
1. The first problem which young people who have left a cult or a sect have is loneliness. Their entire days in the sect, and those of fellow cult members, were full, or they were outside on the street to collect money or recruit new members.
2. They have tremendous difficulty making their own decisions because all decisions, when they belonged to the sect, were made for them. They even need help in things as simple as buying an alarm clock in waking up on time in the morning.
3. Another problem is the drifting through the various stages of consciousness which they experienced during their time in the cult. I have spoken with people who belonged to sects which performed much meditation exercise. Some groups have their members meditate 21 hours a day 21 days in a row. Naturally, that has a horrible effect on their frame of mind because they learn how to just sit there and "empty" their minds, that means to shut out any other thought, and that for 21 hours a day, for 21 days.
4. The fourth problem: depression. Their old depression which they had when they went into the cult will almost certainly come back when they get out. On top of that they have lost friends which they really liked who are still in the cult. Besides that they have the feeling of having lost their innocence. They went into the cult, full of reverential wonderment, with wide-eyed naivete, and then they found out that they have been deceived and taken in. So they experience a feeling of grief, of having lost their innocence and having become more skeptical and cynical than they were before.
Dr. Klaus Karbe - AGPF: Rehabilitation ... American Experiences, 1981 Page 38
Besides that these young people have feelings of guilt, because most cults have used them to recruit members and collect money in ways were were not always quite honest. In order to receive money or even to recruit members, they have told people stories which are not always true.
6. The sixth problem: the fear of the cult. Sects differ in the degree of harassment or the efforts to get people back. Several of the young people were in small, very frightening cults and were literally afraid. In some of the major sects certain myths were told that if people left, god would punish them with death or the cult would kill them, etc.
7. There exists every possible feeling of indebtedness to the people which they have left behind in the cult. In some sects, for instance, people enter as a married couple. Then it can happen that the wife, for instance, can become increasingly aware of what is really being played out here, would like to leave, but she still has a husband and children in the sect. On the other side she also feels like she owes something to the members whom she, herself, has recruited, and who still remain in the cult. Then she questions herself as to whether she could go back and also get these people out.
8. In our group therapy, we are continually asked the question of what to do and say when one runs into friends who are still members of the sect.
9. Another problem: how should one get over the constant watchfulness of parents and friends. We call that the "fishbowl effect," where everybody is looking at the goldfish swimming around. Many former cult members quite simply have the feeling that they are constantly being watched by their families
Dr. Klaus Karbe - AGPF: Rehabilitation ... American Experiences, 1981 Page 39
for a sign that they could perhaps run away and go back to the sect. From that, I call it the "aquarium effect," because the fish in an aquarium can be observed no matter where they swim.
10. Former sect members would like to speak about the positive aspects of the sect. Their families and friends, however, do not want to know anything about the positive sides. In our groups, I give these people the chance to talk about that. In doing that it can happen that very shy people have learned to establish relations with other people and win friends in these sects. Naturally, they will rate the cult very positively. Or they might want to talk about love and attachment to a single person which they met in the cult. As said, however, their families and friends do not want to hear anything about these aspects. So we talk about that in our groups.
11. Special difficulties stem from the question: how should you tell people whom you have just recently met that you have been in a sect at all: How can you tell people who have never belonged to a cult without revealing your innermost feelings? It often happens that people say, "How can such an intelligent person join a damned cult anyway?" That is a genuine problem. I tell these ex-members that even the jury could not understand Patty Hearst during her time in the SLA, although A. Bailey tried to use a whole battery of experts to communicate, in brief, how persuasion through force, which is so often called "brainwashing," works. In our group therapy we talk about how the word "brainwashing" is a term which leaves people much doubt as to whether such control over another person is possible. Then I explain to them how Bob Lifton said in his work that
Dr. Klaus Karbe - AGPF: Rehabilitation ... American Experiences, 1981 Page 40
the term "brainwashing" is a sort of bad translation of the Chinese words for "thought reform." "Thought" was translated as "brain"; "reform" as "washing." Therefore terms like "mind control" and "brainwashing" are laughed off because people cannot comprehend that something like "coercive persuasion," as we who deal with these processes call it, is at all possible in sects. We prefer to call it "coercive persuasion" because this designation is less dramatic than "brainwashing," and therefore more credible. When I worked for the Army, the soldiers always thought that the bullets would never hit them, but would hit others instead. In the same way, people with whom I have spoken about "coercive persuasion" or "brainwashing" think that only simple-minded people could give in to it, but never them. Everybody feels invulnerable, yet we are all vulnerable and can be talked into or forced into something.
12. People who leave a sect are overly aware of all the sins in the world and of all the inadequacies of their families and of the world. They have to be brought to reconcile themselves to the fact that neither they, themselves, nor any one of us is perfect and that we have to live with this fact.
13. Another problem area? Those young people would like to be altruistic, but they would like to be able to help humanity without being deceived by another cult. And they do not know how they should go about it.
14. Ex-members are angry at the sect. After they recognize what has happened to them, most of them have the feeling that they have been misused.
Dr. Klaus Karbe - AGPF: Rehabilitation ... American Experiences, 1981 Page 41
Often those who have been affected are very annoyed about the lost years of their lives which they have dedicated to the cult. Very tragic cases are the women who have belonged to the cult for years, are in their late 30s, and then realize after their departure that they have practically wasted their chance to marry and have children. They could still marry if they wanted to but are, in their opinion, too old to have children. Many women in this situation prefer to remain in the sect because they are past the right time to get married and have children. They see no other chance for themselves.
15. Many young people who leave a sect have intimate, personal difficulties. They need a lot of help to solve their personal problems. Consequently I speak with many young people and their parents and try to advise them for the long term.
16. When one leaves a sect or a cult, one no longer belongs to the Chosen Few, the elite, but is just simply one person among many. That, of course, is a strange feeling after having once been a part of the Chosen Few.
17. One of the greatest problems is the limitation of mental activity, the damming of thought, so to speak.
It has been asked whether many people leave of their own free determination. Only about 10 percent of the 300 ex-members interviewed by me have left of their own will. They were mostly people who had climbed up in the sect hierarchy and had come to know where the money was going. Therefore it was a type of cynicism, based on knowledge, which helped them leave the cult. For these people, who left of their own
Dr. Klaus Karbe - AGPF: Rehabilitation ... American Experiences, 1981 Page 42
free will, it is tremendously important to keep in contact with people who, themselves, once belonged to a sect, to get information from them to overcome their past, and understand how things worked, etc. Those who claim to have been "deprogrammed," but then returned to the sect, were almost never fully deprogrammed, that is, they did not have enough time to retain the information, or the deprogrammer did not recognize that the person was very friendly to all outward appearances, but had still not completely broken with the past. The deprogrammer goes home but the young people still have their problems and questions and do not know who they can talk them over with. So they go back to the cult.
Those who go back also include young people who had tremendous psychological problems before they joined the sect, and who have had a nearly inconsequential life in society. The cult, then, gives them a life in society which they were never able to have before. These people know how very much the cult will praise them when they go back. Some cults overwhelm people with praise and acknowledgment when they have had contact with deprogrammers but came back anyway. There is, as a result, a group of very unhappy, psychologically disturbed people who go back to the cult simply to be praised. It is a very interesting sub-group. You often meet them here. They then tell other former members that they would have gladly left, but found no substitute for that which the sect offered them.
It is difficult to obtain extensive statistical material about the number of those who go back. Several observers estimate that only 5 percent go back.

Sirona

I suppose what prompted me to start this topic is that I've been struggling recently with mistrust.

I'm finding it difficult to know what is "normal" in terms of boundaries in personal relationships. What I mean is, there are certain standards of conduct in friendships (and in family for that matter) and we all need to draw a line which means "here is my standard and if a friend steps over this line then I break the friendship". The trouble is, I feel that I get offended way too easily by friends, or rather, I allow myself to feel really let down by friends. Then I start to think that I can't rely on anyone.

Is this an Ex JW reaction?

In particular, I believe people are genuine, usually, and I take them on face value. Then something happens which destroys that and I realise they haven't been genuine, they've mislead me, or talked about me behind my back or something. Then I'm reminded of the JWs and of other times in the past when this has happened and it all becomes one big problem.

If anyone can provide their own insights that would be really helpful. In particular, I'm analysing if ITS ME that is causing this problem. I mean I recognise that if I am let down by friends and family regularly (and I get upset about it) then maybe it is something that I am doing?

One thing I know I do is I don't always keep in touch with people. It is almost due to a fear of close friendships. In the past I've really opened up, but was hurt in the process. Just recently I found out that a friend who I've confided in regularly has lied to me and I don't know why.

Sirona

zugzwang

Same problem here. Major trust issues. It's hard to trust much of anyone when your "mother" the WTS turned out to be a liar. I think the WTS taught us that we could always trust them, so we did. Then we learned they were full of crap. At least for me that has caused me to be very cynical. I pretty much think that everyone is full of crap. That of course makes it difficult to get close to much of anyone. Solution: Unfortunately I don't have the answer. And if someone gave me the answer I probably wouldn't listen to them anyway, after all, I can't trust them.

EvilForce

Sirona,

I think you have a great deal of work to do on this matter. (Trust me I have plenty issues of my own, so I'm not being harsh or judgemental, hopefully I'm being helpful.)

Putting down lines in the sand that if friends cross you cut them off is a JW thing to do. You need to accept your friends for who they are and all their little eccentricities, warts, moles and all. Now I'm not saying that if a friend of your's sleeps with your husband....I'm talking about normal everyday stuff. If she talked behind your back was she simply mad at you about something? Have you done the same thing to her? Remember, the JW thing has taught you that all your friendships are "conditional". You screw up....BOOM you outta here!

True friends and family stick thru thick and thin. They are there for you when you screw up, and you are there for them when they do something you don't like. The dub's DO NOT teach forgiveness. They teach condesention. Did they forget something that was important to you? Maybe they were self involved...we all get self involved from time to time.

I remember being like this when I first went to college. I had a no exceptions policy. You screw up, I can't trust you,,,,,you outta here. This isn't what Jesus taught. He taught to forgive 77 times and more.

Another point I learned from a Buhddist monk was that to forgive is to forget. You must forget the pain that someone caused you and not bring it up again. If someone says sorry and you accept their apology....it is not fair for you to beat them over the head with this. YOU must truly work at it to put it out of your mind. Guys I think are a bit better in this matter. You gals tend to hold grudges longer as a rule. It's the way you would want to be treated no? Love does not keep account of injury.

LittleToe

Trust can be a huge thing, on leaving. It can take a while to learn, and to earn.
I can't add much more to what EF said, though.

{{{hugs}}}

peacefulpete

There is also the reality that friends are rare. At best we may have a handful of people that we can be close with and reveal ourselves to. Ex JWs may feel that something is wrong with themselves or the world if they don't immediately form close relationships with new people. Perhaps this is also part of the illusion that the WT created that you could gather a hundred people into a room and all really love each other because they have one thing in common. Even the best of friends hurt each other sometimes, it is the rare combination of chemistry and shared experience that bonds people dispite this.

Ticker

Great topic! I believe one of the most crucial parts of recovery from a cult and most effective is the mental healing and understanding of what happened and is happening. Its one thing to be physically free but a whole other to be mentally free. Its articles like theses that help show suffering victims or ones seeking to help someone break free from a totallitarion authority structure, that they are not alone and the symptons they are feeling is a very normal part of the healing process. Without psychological insight and understanding as to what happened, what caused vulnerability to this group, why do I feel as I do, and what can I do to heal and move on, the exit process would be much harder and much more unsucessful.

Ticker

Lehaa

Fantasic thread.

Just wish i could get my sister to read it.

Thanks

Flash

Oh yea, I think we can ALL relate to this.

purplesofa

Sirona,

Thanks for posting this information.

purps

The effects of exiting a cult

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