It's all about women; the Roman Catholic Church in the 21st C.

by Abaddon 18 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Abaddon

  Well, the new Pope has a task to take on or to ignore.

  Every single one of the major doctinal issues facing the Roman Catholic church involves women.

  • The celebacy of Priests
  • Contraception
  • Female Priests
  • Abortion

  It is ironic that John Paul II, who was a Maryist, has left the church just as misogynistic as it was when he took up the papacy.

  It seems devotion to a pseudo-historical representation of womanhood borrowed and developed from pre-Christian religions is not enough to stop sexist attitudes; women are still too dirty to allow to have sex with Priests, are not allowed control over their own bodies, and are unworthy of being spiritual guides and mentors.

  All the bets are on a traditionalist being elected Pope, so I doubt we will see any change.

  http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=29948

  (warning, this article is by Pat Buchanan)

  http://www.spiked-online.com/articles/00000006D8C0.htm

  Will another dozen years or so of a traditionalist Pope leave the RCC in any better position? Will the likely drop in charisma of the next Pope when compared to JPII (who although a traidtionalist was excellent at the amiable-old-man-of-god routine) cause those young people who were so engaged by JPII to move away from the Church? Will the patterns of church attendence in developing countries (like in South America) follow the patterns of attendance in EUrope and America as sociological differences reduce? Do we really care?

  Obviously some of the above four points are doctrinal (women ordination) and have been stated by previous Popes to be not open to change. Others, such as Priest celebacy, is seen as 'church disciple' and changable.

  An increasing number of those who still follow the RCC say (in surveys) they would support changes to doctrine in such areas. Add in those who ignore some RCC teachings on sexuality and contraception and you have two Churches.

  One of old men seeking to restore a Church that can never be as it was. And one of young people who are attracted to the tradition of faith but look at things through modern eyes and want a faith that doesn't make them accept idoicies as part of it belief structure.

  The old men will never win. They never do.

  Whether there is any RCC left when they give up and liberalise is a different question...
• 

  Emma

  bttt...
• 

  the_classicist

  The Catholic Church believes what it believes. Its not about popularity, it's about truth.

  An increasing number of those who still follow the RCC say (in surveys) they would support changes to doctrine in such areas. Add in those who ignore some RCC teachings on sexuality and contraception and you have two Churches.

  And how many of those who ignore Sacred Tradition regularly attend mass? Most of them probably aren't practising, so basically their position is thus: Sure I'll go back, if you loosen up on the morals.
• 

  Qcmbr

  I have to agree with C. if the Roman Catholic church follwos the worlds opinions without some justification (ie new light :) then it is revealed as ruled by the world. If it sticks to its guns even when its totally unfashionable or difficult then it has some legitemacy to the claim of being led by God.
• 

  Dan-O

  "Do we really care?"
  
  No, not really.
  
  Women do play a large role in the Church, as religious education directors, nuns, administrators, fundraisers, and many other positions. But I don't foresee the Church reversing two millennia of tradition by allowing women to become priests or by allowing priests to marry (which has effectively been taboo for the past 1500 years). Ditto for their stance on abortion.
  
  Policies on contraception, from what I understand, have relaxed quite a bit over the past few decades. As long as it's not a permanent sterilization (or the abandonment of a fertilized egg or a developing fetus, as would be the case with a 'morning after' pill or an abortion) ... the Church seems to be more accepting of short-term birth control methods (condoms, spermicides, birth control pills, etc.).
  
  When you're married in a Catholic ceremony, you do promise to lovingly accept children as a blessing from God. This would imply that at some point you're gonna pop out a batch of junior Catholics.
• 

  funkyderek

  the Church seems to be more accepting of short-term birth control methods (condoms, spermicides, birth control pills, etc.).

  No, I think you'll find the church's stand on contraception is the same as it's always been. Churchgoers may have become more liberal but the church has not.
• 

  Dan-O

  Yeah, you're right. The official position is still from 1966: no rubbers, no pills ... just the rhythm method.
• 

  heathen

  I don't think the church itself is that strict over the issues of contraception , I've never heard anybody being excomunicated over it . My personal belief is that people who are married should not use things like that but plan to have a family . Of course people who are not married should not have sex . That would not be just tradition but more in line with bible principles . I do think the church needs reform . We all know some priests and nuns are having sex without marriage as well as the child molestation issue , they clearly need a policy involving removal of such ones instead of trying to cover it up . They are somewhat like the WTBTS when it comes to these type of things . Anyway IMO they are the whore of babylon and will shortly be annihilated .
• 

  Abaddon

  If you have young people who are 'Catholic', but who don't go to church or follow Catholic beliefs, their children will be as near to secular, on average, as the children of Europeans or Americans who stopped going to church after childhood.
  

  That is very secular, on average, in Europe. America is more religious, but the trend is there.

  Essentially, if they don't make the church more relevant to young people, RC will become as meaningless as tag as CofE is to many English people who give 'Church of England' as their religion on forms. There will be believers in the Christian tradition, yes, but real as seen from 1925, CofE or RC?

  Nah, not many.

  The RC church really has to get off the pot or shit. If it thinks it has experienced decline before it better wait a generation and then wonder where its ass is.

  And when religions have to change to survive... they change. Or they die.

  History is littered with gods who died, apart from six guys called Sven in a cabin somewhere who think they worship Thor but are just really sad Nazi scum, and any god existing on that sort of worship is better off dead really.

  Any suitable museum will have 'em by the dozen; Odin, Apollo, Hermes, Isis, Ra, Quetzalcoatl or however the ferk you spell it...

  All dead. Even if they were 'probably' never alive, there is nothing deader than something that never really ever was not being even thought of as real anymore.

  Some religions change. Zeus became Jupiter. I wonder how many early Saints have attributes that match with the local deity of the area they're meant to originate from? God knows we keep the same festivals as bronze-age and probably neolithic 'pagans'.

  A faith built on the belief that a carpenter really was the real son of god, no metaphors or nothing, consumed hundreds of local beliefs, in Europe, in South America and elsewhere, and incorporated and accepted them, spiritually bowdlerised them and changed as a result - whilst retaining the core beliefs or values. Which essentially boil down to 'be nice unto each other'...

  Well, do you seriously think it will die with a whimper, empty churches and old people who smell of cabbage, shackled to a rather discreditable set of beliefs that have nothing to do with there being forgiveness of sin or that we should be nice to other people?

  Oh no, I don't think so.

  But I reckon the next Pope will suck, "as he that hath a foil to set him off" almost inevitably would. It's unlikely he's a young guy so reckon 10 years maybe. And then the next one will really have to do something.
• 

  the_classicist

  Essentially, if they don't make the church more relevent to young people, RC will become as meaningless as tag as CofE is to many English people who give 'Church of England' as their religion on forms. Their will be believers in the Christian tradition, yes, but real as seen from 1925, CofE or RC?

  The Church of England and Anglicans in North America have actually liberalized quite a bit. And they are still declining and not attracting young people. (It's so lax doctrinally in the Anglican Church of Canada that you don't even have to believe in the major parts that Anglicanism is based upon).

  I find that the churches that are attracting young people are the evangelical Protestant ones. Now, by evangelical, I don't mean the US kind, but the newer, conservative Protestant ones.