JW's and Material Love

by JH 23 Replies latest jw friends

  • JH
    JH

    1 John 2:15

    15 Do not be loving either the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him; 16 because everything in the world?the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of one?s means of life?does not originate with the Father, but originates with the world.

    Funny, I see no difference in what JW's possess and what worldly people possess.

    I see brothers driving fully equipped Accuras, and owning beautiful homes.

    Makes me wonder....

  • Toronto_Guy
    Toronto_Guy

    I think some of it depends on the neighbourhood...for the most part, I found that Witnesses lived similar to most of their neighbours in terms of material possessions, depending on the neighbourhood. So in that sense I agree with you. I do know of Witnesses however, such as my parents, who gave up alot to serve "without distraction." For example, they never bought a house, which eventually brought some hardship, never drove an expensive car, etc. They probably could have had these things had they not been such "good" Witnesses.

    Toronto_Guy

  • El blanko
    El blanko

    This changes from congregation to congregation and from person to person.

  • JH
    JH
    I agree with you. I do know of Witnesses however, such as my parents, who gave up alot to serve "without distraction."
    This changes from congregation to congregation and from person to person.

    Good points, but the bible is clear and doesn't change from congregation to congregation. I just see no difference at all, in JW and non JW material possesions. Many JW's are poor and many are well off, just like worldly people.

  • diamondblue1974
    diamondblue1974
    Good points, but the bible is clear and doesn't change from congregation to congregation.

    I just see no difference at all, in JW and non JW material possesions. Many JW's are poor and many are well off, just like worldly people.

    So where in the bible does it say that you shouldnt have material possessions?...the only scriptual references is the one you quote and the one where it suggests that it would easier for a camel to fit through an eye of a needle or something like that.

    Whilst not a JW nor a supporter of them; I do not see how you can condemn them or anyone else for that matter for living within their means; the only problem is where this consumes a persons life so much they forget about other important facets of their life such as friends, family and where applicable faith.

    The society we live in enables people to take opportunities or make them and this regretably leads to some having more than others; theres nothing wrong with having little and being modest but on balance there is also nothing wrong with having plenty.

    The bible has no bearing on this issue and any suggestion that everyone should be of equal status is quite unrealistic not to mention communistic.

    DB

  • Golf
    Golf

    Right ON JH! Then again, it says, "...Make friends for yourselves by means of the unrighteous riches,..."

    So, come to your own conslusion. Is money controlling us or are we controlling money?


    Golf

  • talesin
    talesin
    The bible has no bearing on this issue and any suggestion that everyone should be of equal status is quite unrealistic not to mention communistic.

    I didn't see JH suggesting that everyone should be of equal status. He was merely remarking on the JWs incredible hyprocracy about materialism. And actually, are you sure this is communist and not socialist? And if it is, so what? It's legal to be a communist in Canada. I for one, think our system sucks, and there are NO equal opportunities. That is as much a lie as what the JWs teach.

    Whilst not a JW nor a supporter of them; I do not see how you can condemn them or anyone else for that matter for living within their means; the only problem is where this consumes a persons life so much they forget about other important facets of their life such as friends, family and where applicable faith.

    That's not what I learned growing up JW. You must have been in a different congo.

    The JWs teach that material pursuit is wrong. The prime objective is preaching, not accumulating possessions.

    They are also supposed to support and take care of their 'brothers and sisters'. It's interesting that many of them are very materialistic, and the rich ones rarely (around here anyway, and my family is 4th generation, so I've seen A LOT), help the ones who are sick and in trouble. Especially financially.

    t

  • JH
    JH
    He was merely remarking on the JWs incredible hyprocracy about materialism.

    right on

  • Spook
    Spook

    A fundamental inauthenticity of JW's and most western religions is the pursuit of the "Great Reward." Freedom from materialism cannot truly be present for one's who hope for material satisfaction. By material, I mean tangible, not economic. Look at the pictures in the magazines. Paradise is a thing. The big houses are things. The bounty of produce are things. Even the family and friends are not value in themselves (meditate on disfellowshipping - it's O.K. to sacrifice these for getting other things in the future) but are things. This is the biblical position that I feel drives much conflict. Look at Job's situation. He lost his things in a spiritual struggle. He was rewarded with more things.

    Ben

  • diamondblue1974
    diamondblue1974
    I didn't see JH suggesting that everyone should be of equal status. He was merely remarking on the JWs incredible hyprocracy about materialism.

    I agree with you...he didnt directly...it was a comment I made independently without being prompted and I agree that some JWs are hypocritical when it comes to these issues and that clearly is wrong...how someone can lecture a congregation about living a simple life whilst driving a S class Merc is beyond reason but their is a line to be drawn on this.

    A family in the hall I attended for many years were very quiet and unassuming but both parents had relatively good jobs and worked as professionals I think he was an Consultant Engineer and she was an Accountant; they were a lovely couple, would do anything for anyone and were regularly on the ministry and at meetings doing what they then thought was best and were as far as I was aware then good christian people, their children were well spoken, relatively well behaved and well disciplined. In short they were an ordinary family (just in case the description had you thinking of a stepford family they werent and they had their fair share of problems too but so does everyone)

    What I saw as wrong however is that they were bitched about by others for putting their kids through private education and because they had money and good jobs yet they werent particularly showy about it...it was just obvious without them being ostentatious and bragging. They gave to charity and they would help anyone out who needed it within reason.

    The point I was making is that there is a vast difference between having means and being all consumed by them and I think those that are all consumed need to get a balance but what is worse is when those with means preach about simplifying your life and pioneering yet not applying their own counsel, these are of course hypocritical.

    Having means in general is not wrong and not unscriptual and not every JW that has money is a hypocrite although some maybe. I feel there was an over generalisation and that is what i was commenting on.

    And actually, are you sure this is communist and not socialist? And if it is, so what? It's legal to be a communist in Canada. I for one, think our system sucks, and there are NO equal opportunities. That is as much a lie as what the JWs teach.
    You could well be right and whether or not communism is right or wrong we have numerous examples of where it has failed in the past; personally there are flaws in any system and yes not everyone has the same opportunities; My comment whilst unintended did read like an over generalisation.

    That's not what I learned growing up JW. You must have been in a different congo.

    I agree the reason why you didnt learn this was because the WTS society frowns upon those of means although wont openly say so because they probably think they might contribute more financially to the borg than those without, however you are right it isnt encouraged. What I was trying to suggest is that JWs that do have money are not automatically hypocrites because of this.

    The JWs teach that material pursuit is wrong. The prime objective is preaching, not accumulating possessions.

    That is definately the spin that the WTS puts on the biblical references although a correct interpretation of them would lead to different conclusion.

    They are also supposed to support and take care of their 'brothers and sisters'. It's interesting that many of them are very materialistic, and the rich ones rarely (around here anyway, and my family is 4th generation, so I've seen A LOT), help the ones who are sick and in trouble. Especially financially.

    I agree and these are definately hypocritical...with means comes a responsibility to contribute...to assist those who are in need and those who might be suffering financially if anyone doesnt then they cant really say they are a true christian can they? A question to ponder is if a christian is to support and take care of their brothers and sisters how can they do this without first having some means in order to do so?

    DB

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