Contradictions and NWT

by cheeseman 19 Replies latest watchtower bible

cheeseman

I have 2 witnesses coming to my door in the near future. They left me the "Why you can trust the bible" tract which claims there are no contradictions in the bible. So, in preparation I looked out some examples on the Internet. Thing is I have no bible and thus no way to check these scriptures are correct. I don't want to find out their NWT version doesn't show the contradiction I'm looking for. I want them to look like the fools not me!
So, can anybody check these are ok using the NWT. I'd be very grateful if anyone could.
Thanks.
cheeseman

Oops, here they are:
Who is the father of Joseph?
MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.
Which first--beasts or man?
GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
The number of beasts in the ark
GEN 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
GEN 7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, GEN 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.
How many stalls and horsemen?
KI1 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.
CH2 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.
The sins of the father
ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
The bat is not a bird
DEU 14:11 Of all clean birds ye shall eat.
DEU 14:12 But these are they of which ye shall not eat: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
DEU 14:13 And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind,
DEU 14:14 And every raven after his kind,
DEU 14:15 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
DEU 14:16 The little owl, and the great owl, and the swan,
DEU 14:17 And the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the cormorant,
DEU 14:18 And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
Insects do NOT have four feet
LEV 11:21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;
LEV 11:22 Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind.
LEV 11:23 But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.
The shape of the earth
ISA 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
MAT 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them
God be seen?
Exod. 24:9,10; Amos 9:1; Gen. 26:2; and John 14:9
God CAN be seen:
"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts." (Ex. 33:23)
"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." (Ex. 33:11)
"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (Gen. 32:30)
God CANNOT be seen:
"No man hath seen God at any time." (John 1:18)
"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." (Ex. 33:20)
"Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1 Tim. 6:16)
CRUEL, UNMERCIFUL, DESTRUCTIVE, and FEROCIOUS or KIND, MERCIFUL, and GOOD:
"I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy." (Jer. 13:14) "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling."
"The Lord is very pitiful and of tender mercy." (James 5:11)
"For his mercy endureth forever." (1 Chron. 16:34)
"The Lord is good to all, and his tender mercies are over all his works." (Ps. 145:9)
"God is love." (1 John 4:16)
Tempts?
"And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham." (Gen 22:1)
"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." (James 1:13)
Ascend to heaven
"And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." (2 Kings 2:11)
"No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, ... the Son of Man." (John 3:13)
Who bears guilt?
GAL 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
GAL 6:5 For every man shall bear his own burden.
Do you answer a fool?
PRO 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
PRO 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
How many children did Michal, the daughter of Saul, have?
SA2 6:23 Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.
SA2 21:8 But the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite:
How old was Jehoiachin when he began to reign?
KI2 24:8 Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.
CH2 36:9 Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.
When did Baasha die?
26th year of the reign of Asa I Kings 16:6-8
36th year of the reign of Asa I 2 Chron 16:1
NeonMadman

Are you really trying to throw them a softball? Most of these "contradictions" are easily explained. Some are the result of early scribal errors (like the number disagreements), and others are simply interpretive questions. Even fewer impinge on any significant doctrine of the Bible. You aren't likely to dislodge their thinking by running through this list with them, especially if they are inclined to do even a modicum of research. Why not confront them instead with a list of the Watchtower's false prophecies? After all, it's really the organization interpretation of the Bible and not the Bible itself that is the basis of their faith (despite their claims to the contrary). Why not attack the actual root of their authority structure?
AlmostAtheist

The watchtower now has the NWT online at their site: http://watchtower.org/bible/index.htm
It's a crappy interface, but it works.
Enjoy!
Dave
cheeseman

Why not confront them instead with a list of the Watchtower's false prophecies?
I may pursue this as an alternative. Thanks!
Elsewhere

Here is a great site... http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/
The site lists contradictions here: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html
cheeseman

Thanks AlmostAtheist for the NWT link. I've checked them out and they seem ok. Maybe these aren't the best examples but I still think any reasonable person would view them as contradictions. To not do so would be to blind oneself. If they want to deceive themselves then I suppose nothing I show them will penetrate the closed mind.
NeonMadman

I've checked them out and they seem ok. Maybe these aren't the best examples but I still think any reasonable person would view them as contradictions. To not do so would be to blind oneself. If they want to deceive themselves then I suppose nothing I show them will penetrate the closed mind.
The point, though, is that not every contradiction is a contradiction. What I mean by that is that what appears to be a contradiction may not in any way reduce the credibility of the Bible. If you ask me what kind of a day I have had, and I answer, "Well, it was a good day and a bad day," I have technically contradicted myself, but no one would accuse me of lying. I am simply using contradictory statements as a rhetorical device to make a point. I think that, for example, the statements from Proverbs about how to answer a fool fall into this category. They are in successive verses, and were clearly from the hand of the same writer - do you suppose that he did not know that he was writing contradictory statements? Obviously he wrote them that way deliberately as a literary device. So the fact that the statements technically contradict each other does not affect the credibility of the Bible. Some do reflect actual errors, but these were obviously early scribal errors and were made in the copying of the text, not the original autographs (like the number of Solomon's horses or Josiah's age when becoming king). These are minor matters and do not affect any major doctrine. Textual criticism has shown that the Bible text we have is unquestionably faithful to what was originally written. The Bible is better documented as to accuracy than any other ancient historical work. The fact that a few minor errors of this sort have remained (and could yet be resolved by future manuscript discoveries) does not reduce the overall credibility of the Bible, except in the minds of those who are looking for any excuse to reject it. A JW with a half hour of time on his hands could easily reconcile nearly all of these contradictions. The one he might have the most trouble with would be the one about no one being able to see God. JWs have a hard time harmonizing that text at John 1:18 with the many OT reports of people seeing God face to face. It isn't so much a problem for other Christians, who generally believe that it is God the Father who is being spoken of in John, and God the Son who appeared repeatedly in the OT (and who is said by John to reveal the Father). In any event, you will be getting yourself into a morass of argument with a JW trying to hammer out all of these supposed contradictions. Some, at least, he will see as easily answered, and he may come to regard you as simply a negative person who is determined to reject the Bible as God's Word. If he comes to that conclusion, it will reinforce his feeling of moral superiority rather than shaking his faith. I'll stick by my first advice: go for the false prophecies. Be prepared for the standard excuses (e.g., "we get new light," "we don't claim to be inspired," "we have made mistakes" etc.). Holding his feet to the fire on that topic might ultimately force him to admit (to himself, if not to you) that the organization is not what it claims to be. Of course, you could always throw in some info about the WT/UN connection and the child sexual abuse scandals for good measure.
cheeseman

I hear ya NeonMad. Shifting the topic from a few minor points of error to shaking the foundations of the organisation will probably have more effect. However, I might try to find 2 or 3 of the best contradictions I can though, just for extra backup in my arsenal. Any beauties come to mind?
AlmostAtheist

Like Neon, I don't think you'll get too far with contradictions in the Bible. All Christians are already comfortable "explaining" scriptures that contradict their beliefs, so it doesn't really matter all that much what the Bible says. Once you allow yourself to play the "scribal error" card, anything goes. And the JW's will play it.
The Bible contradicts itself more fundamentally at the concept level. A 'loving God' that kills every living human and animal in the flood, kills thousands of Caannite's (sp?) including totally innocent children, and in the christian era murders people for lying about a real estate transaction. This god cares about you personally, but will fail to intercede on your behalf until someone else prays for you.
Even at that, though, they can play the "God's thoughts are higher than our thoughts" card, and again, anything goes.
Good luck with your visit!
Dave

Contradictions and NWT

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