Did God lie about Satans rebellion to justify his own actions?

by jeanniebeanz 14 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • cheeseman
    God doesn't lie

    Who said?...God said...well what a surprise!

    HE LIES:

    Joshua 7:1 says, "The people of Israel broke faith in regard to the devoted things; for Achan...took some of the devoted things; and the anger of the Lord burned against the people of Israel" and God responds by saying in the 11th verse, "Israel has sinned, and they have also transgressed my covenant...." Yet, God did not tell the truth. Only Achan sinned, not all Israel, and Achan admits as much in the 20th verse by saying, "Indeed I have sinned against the Lord God of Israel...."

    "He (David--Ed.) shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever" (2 Sam. 7:13) and to David God says, "thine house and thy kingdom shall be established forever: thy throne shall be established for ever" (2 Sam. 7:16). God's prophecy failed. He didn't tell the truth. The Davidic line ended with Zedekiah and there was no Davidic king for 450 years when the Maccabeans established a dynasty, the first king being Aristobulus. Since the end of the Maccabean dynasty there has never been a king of the Jews. Second Kings 24:14 proves as much by saying, "He carried away all Jerusalem, and all the princes, and all the mighty men of valour, even ten thousand captives, and all the craftsmen and smiths. None remained, save the poorest sort of the people of the land."

    If viewed together the following verses also show God engaged in prevarication. "...of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eat thereof thou shalt surely die" (Gen. 2:17), "God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die" (Gen. 3:3), "the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die" (Gen. 3:4), and "all the days that Adam lived were 930 years and he died" (Gen. 5:5). God said Adam and Eve would die on the day they ate of the tree and the devil said they would not. They ate of it and Adam lived to be 930 years old. In other words, God lied and the devil told the truth. Yet, according to Titus 1:2 "God never lies."

    And finally, in Gen. 3:14 God said to the serpent, "...upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life...." Serpents do not now and never have eaten dust. If the serpent represents the Devil, he does not eat dust either; so, in either case God did not tell the truth.


    "O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived...." (Jer. 20:7). "if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel" (Ezek. 14:9). "Ah, Lord God! Surely thou hast greatly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, Ye shall have peace; whereas the sword reaches unto the soul" (Jer. 4:10). "...God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe what is false, so that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness" (2 Thess. 2:9-12). See also: 2 Chron. 18:18-22, 1 Kings 22:20-23 and Jer. 15:18.


    "...and thou (Moses--Ed.) shalt come, thou and the elders of Israel, unto the king of Egypt, and you shall say unto him, The Lord God of the Hebrews hath met with us: and now let us go, we beseech thee, three days journey into the wilderness, that we may sacrifice to the Lord our God" (Ex. 3:18) and "afterward Moses and Aaron went in, and told Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Let my people go, that they may hold a feast unto me in the wilderness." God is telling Moses to lie because the real reason is to escape.

    "Samuel said, How can I go? if Saul hear it, he will kill me. And the Lord said, Take a heifer with thee, and say, I am come to sacrifice to the Lord" (1 Sam. 16:2). The Lord told Samuel to lie also, since he is actually going out to meet a son of Jesse to anoint him king. Yet, we are told in Prov. 12:22 that, "Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord."


    Ex. 1:15-20 says, "The king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives, whose names were Shiphrah and Puah, 'When you help the Hebrew women in childbirth and observe them on the delivery stool, if it is a boy, kill him; but if it is a girl, let her live.' The midwives, however, feared God and did not do what the king of Egypt had told them to do; they let the boys live. Then the king of Egypt summoned the midwives and asked them, 'Why have you done this? Why have you let the boys live?' The midwives answered Pharaoh, 'Hebrew women are not like Egyptian women; they are vigorous and give birth before the midwives arrive.' So God was kind to the midwives and the people increased and became even more numerous." The midwives lied and God rewarded them by being kind to them.

    Joshua 2:3-6 says, "So the king of Jericho sent this message to Rahab, 'Bring out the men who came to you and entered your house, because they have come to spy out the whole land.' But the woman had taken the two men and hidden them. She said, 'Yes, the men came to me, but I did not know where they had come from. At dusk, when it was time to close the city gate, the men left. I don't know which way they went. Go after them quickly. You may catch up with them." (But she had taken them up to the roof and hidden them under the stalks of flax she had laid out on the roof.) Rahab lied about where the men were and yet James 2:25 says, "...was not Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction?"

    And 2 Kings 10:18-21 says, "Jehu brought all the people together and said to them, 'Ahab served Baal a little; Jehu will serve him much. Now summon all the prophets of Baal, all his ministers and all his priests. See that no one is missing, because I am going to hold a great sacrifice for Baal. Anyone who fails to come will no longer live. But Jehu was acting deceptively in order to destroy the ministers of Baal.... all the ministers of Baal came; not one stayed away. They crowded into the temple of Baal until it was full from one end to the other." And as verses 25 to 30 show Jehu ordered his guards to go in and kill all those who worshipped Baal. After the bloodshed and killing had concluded the Lord said to Jehu in verse 30, "Because you have done well in accomplishing what is right in my eyes and have done to the house of Ahab all I had in mind to do, your descendants will sit on the throne of Israel to the 4th generation." How is that for a God of mercy!

  • FlyingHighNow
    God doesn't lie

    Who said?...God said...well what a surprise!

    HE LIES:

    A novel thought: there isn't just one god, Jehovah God but many gods and Jehovah God just happens to be a liar.

    Jeannie, I don't necessarily believe all the things in the booklet Jehovah Umasked. I do believe that Jehovah is murderous though, bloodthirsty even. As I always say, "With gods like him, who needs a Satan (or enemies?)

  • Innocent_By-Stander

    Cheeseman, I think you are taking the meanings too literally and the Word and it's translations have been corrupted over time aswell... (It's symantics....) "The Word of God" is more like 50% the word of man, and 50% of God nowadays...

  • bebu
    do you think that God made up lies about Satan's motivations for rebelling in order to justify his own harsh course of action?

    So they are both evil?

    Who made all the good stuff then, and keeps it coming? Eg., a star, a breeze, an ocean beach, a meadow flower, a sunrise or sunset? A lover, a friend, a child? An evil god cannot produce good; he can only corrupt the good already there. Besides beauty, there are concepts of patience, and justice, and goodness, mercy, etc. Who 'made' them? I trace that path upward, not downward.

    As for the argument about God being jealous... Flyin, God is jealous just like my husband is jealous for me and our marriage. My husband would be quite upset if I had an affair. That is not a weakness on his part--because my husband isn't suspicious. Yet jealousy is a part of a deep committed love. It is even a kind of virtue in this sense because it means he cares about US. If my husband simply shrugged his shoulders if I went out "swinging", then wouldn't that imply a severe moral fault? Jealousy in marriage can be morally proper if the husband isn't paranoid (irrationally fearful). The kind of mistake in your argument seems (to me) to be a fallacy of definition--the definition and usage of jealousy.

    Cheeseman, your argument is extremely thin-crusted in my view. You ignore culture, semantics, etc. etc. etc. This book was not written as for 'technical ' accuracy for or by a group of 20th century university professors; and if it actually sported no traces of all the thick culture and expressions and sounded like a textbook, it would be discounted as inauthentic. Each one of your points is easily turned over with a little pancake flipper for this (and some other) reasons. (I have to be off to bed, but I'm sure others will see what you're overlooking/assuming and maybe point it out in detail. BTW, I'll be gone tomorrow as well, most of the day, so excuse my inability to keep stride.)


  • seedy3

    I've often thought about the "Deception" that Satan was suppose to have played on Eve, but now lets look at it a bit more closely.

    God said, If you eat from it that day you shall surely die (not a direct quote but the concept of what he said)

    Satan said, No you will not die, but will gain the knowlege of good and evil (bad) and be like gods (in knowlege of course).

    After the "sin" God said Look they have become like one of us.

    So.......... who told the lie?

    They didn't die that very day, and they gained knowlege of good and bad.............Hmmmmmmmmmmm


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