would you think this scripture could be used for religious tolerance?

by candidlynuts 15 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • hmike
    hmike

    The passage in Mark is consistant with the statements by Jesus about ?good tree/good fruit, bad tree/bad fruit? in Matt 12:33-35 and Luke 6:43-45, and somewhat with what Paul wrote in I Cor. 12:3 (??no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, ?Jesus be cursed??). The teaching appears to be about consistency?that goodness and light cannot coexist with evil and darkness. I think this passage is saying that if someone has joined you in doing God?s work, that?s a good thing. Not only does it benefit the work of the kingdom, but if someone is joined in the efforts, they are not going to work to hinder that at the same time. It wouldn?t make sense for them to knowingly work in harmony with God and against him at the same time.

    The value of this work to the one(s) supporting the work of God would depend on motives and how they live their personal lives:

    ?Many will say to me on that day, ?Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?? Then I will tell them plainly, ?I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers.? (Matt. 7:22-23, NIV).

    So it looks like it is possible to openly work for God?s kingdom, yet live an unrighteous personal, hidden life. Now this we know very well to be true. Kingdom work without personal value can also be done for selfish motives, such as greed or to gain attention to oneself (see Matt. 6:1-8, 16-18; Acts 8: 9-24).

    Back to the original question of whether or not this teaches religious tolerance?you can say it does within a limited context. These people were properly using the name of Jesus to liberate the oppressed as Jesus did and the same way the disciples had been doing even though this group had not been officially authorized with the 12 (Matt. 10:1). This is fine for as far as it goes. The same actions were done in the name of Jesus as the disciples did, so this glorifies the name of Jesus and accomplishes the work of God. There is no mention what, if anything, these outsiders were teaching along with these works. There didn?t seem to be any deviant doctrines as of yet. The only issue seemed to be, ?Is Jesus sent and approved by God?? Miracles done in his name answered, ?Yes!?

    Once Jesus left the earth, different teachings sprang up. The writers of the NT letters definitely had limits as to what differences were acceptable (e.g., the letter to the Galatians, and 2 John 10-11 chastises anyone in the church who gives aid and comfort to false teachers).

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    Hmike..Well thought out comment. The intention behind the Mark verse does seem to me be exactly that which you mentioned, namely that someone would not be able to do exorcisms in Jesus' name without being on Jesus' side, or perhaps more at issue was the reverse, that without Jesus' blessing noone could do exorcisms. This would most likely be the motive for the story. The early Christians had alledged exorcists that could use this text to support their claim, and quiet the objections that they had not been with Jesus or the apostles of lore.

    Yet this text may have a useful purpose in our modern situation. Cultish Bible literalist groups like the WT claim exclusitivity to god's blessing and direction dispite verses like our Mark passage that contradict this notion of organizational exclusivness. The particulars of the story have men UNKNOWN to the apostles being identified as working for Jesus. Doctrine clearly was not at issue as all the exorcists were doing is using Jesus name and demons fled in terror, (apparently the name possesssed a magic like the tetragrammaton did for mystic Jews). 'Correct doctrine' was not at issue, nor required. Personal association with the apostles was not an issue.

    The story about exocisms in mark 3;22-27 and Matt 12:25-29, Luke 11:14,15,17-22 have Jesus defending hiself using similar logic. In the matt and Luke verse Jesus and the Jews were doing exorcisms yet they diagree about how this was being done. The story has Jesus reasoning with them that they were on the same side because both he and their sons were exocisizing demons and the 'devil cannot cast out the devil'. The verse that follows this story (in Matt12:30,Luke 11:23 "not with me is against me ..scatters")belong to a separate Q saying (or Matthean source) not in Mark. The placement next to the story of the argument was done by Matt for reason of his own. perhpas he misunderstood the above story found in Mark and thought the words of jesus were condemnation (very Matthean ,note also he changed 'Scribes' per Mark into 'Pharisees') rather than firm pointed reasoning. At any rate the cultish saying (Matt 12:30) appears a separate saying not originally connected with the exocism story. The verses that follow this about the sins that can be forgiven have a complicated past that I've tried to retrace before. Mark must have been the first to included them though it seems he intended no connnection with the exocism story. A later post-Mathew hand appears to have added the words (vs30) "---for they said he had an unclean spirit" that bridge two. So going back to the two statements originally under discussion, we have one that likely was used to support exocist claims by Christains that never met Jesus or the apostles and another that stands alone and may be Matt's own (anti-Pharisee)thoughts or his sayings source that must be interpreted as it stands. I persoanlly think the matt 12:30 well fits the millitant character of the Zealots and may have been from such a source. The connections between the Zealots and the Jesus character are provocative.

  • stillajwexelder
    stillajwexelder

    Luke 9 49 In response John said: "Instructor, we saw a certain man expelling demons by the use of your name and we tried to prevent him, because he is not following with us." 50 But Jesus said to him: "Do not YOU men try to prevent [him], for he that is not against YOU is for YOU."

    TOLERANCE !!

  • hmike
    hmike

    Thanks, Pete.

    Luke 9:49-50, "whoever is not against you is for you."

    - Acts 15. The Jersalem council of apostles approves of Paul's ministry to the Gentiles.

    - Acts 18:24-28. Paul approves of Apollos, and supports his work after filling him in on new information about Jesus.

    - Phil 1:12-18. Paul rejoices that Christ is preached, even if some do it with improper motives.

    Today: If a secular group is feeding and helping the homeless, the church should not object to that simply on the grounds that they are not a Christian group.

  • candidlynuts
    candidlynuts

    great comments! thanks for replying.

  • kls
    kls

    Candidly-NUTS you are so welcome

    <-----------------------smart ass monkey

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