Schizophrenia

by larc 11 Replies latest jw friends

larc

sf started a thread called "wow", where he posted a long convoluted narrative. She also provided a link to a diary by the same person named Ann. After reading the diary, I stated that this was the classic writing of a paranoid schizophrenic. sf didn't agree and I provided my rationale as well as my experience on the subject. sf still disagreed but didn't say why or offer an alternative interpretation of this very peculiar writing. Since then, I have gone back through the diary to find specific examples of schizophrenic ideation. I chose to post a new thread for greater readership, since this may have gotten buried at the end of the other thread.
First of all, the two major symptoms of schizophrenia are delustions and hallucinations. The major delusions of the paranoid schizophrenic are delusions of granuer and persecution. With this in mind I will list the major delusions in Ann's diary and give two examples of delusions and halluctions combined in the narrative.
Delusions.
1. The White House uses the Watchtower, the Awake, and another magazine, Ensign to transmit secret messages.
2. The Jehovah's Witnesses are working on a secret project with the FBI.
3. Ann is working under cover for the FBI. Her book study conducter through a coded message affirmed this to her and her CO confirmed it.
4. Her friend Lei will continue to cancer treatment "unhindered by the Right Wing conspirators" (paranoid delusion)
5. Two FBI agents want her to find out what is going on the Brookings Institute, Aspen, and the JonBenet Ramsey murder case. (delusions of granduer) In other words, one person is going to take on these huge assinments all at once.
6.Rick Lazio got an e mail from Jehovah through Ann. (granduer)
7.Satan has infiltrated the FBI, the JWs, and the staff of black congressman.
8. Subliminal messages are being sent from the JW platform and from policital speechs at conventions of various groups. She apparantly has made up a word. She calls it "morselcoda".
Here are the two examples of hullcuinations and delusions that Ann provides in her diary.
"I actually saw Jehovah God at the Kindnom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses last night as I sat decoding the secret information from Tery Boyce concerning the goings on at the Brookings Institute, I tell ya, it is revolutionary."
In the next quote she referrs to the brother as Chiapetta, which may be from the product Chea Pet, rather than an actual name.
"I was absolutely shocked when Chiapetta spoke a morselcoda at last night's meeting of Jehovah's Witnesses and told us the news that Mfui, or whatever his name is, I am talking about the President of the NAACP is cunningly trying to land a top job within the Gore or Bush cabinet." (Written before the election)
There are more examples, but this should suffice.
As I said this is classic paranoid schizoprenhic writing. I find it offensive for sf to call it hilareASS. It is a tragic sickness, not only for the person with the desease but for the suffering family of the afflicted one. This kind of information should not be put on public display for people to ridicule.
I have had lengthy conversations with schophrenics and their families. In some ways the families are worse off than the schizophrenic. It has devastating affects on the families.
Now, if sf wants to offer an alternate explaination to what I wrote, I would like to see it, with detail and a rationale, not some flipant, I don't believe it remark.
mommy

Larc,
I completly agree. I responded to her post days ago, I thought the person was in serious need of help. Basically my response was a sideline assessment. I wanted to see what others thought. Such detail, such volume. I was astounded by the nature of the poster.
My only hope was that this person is receiving treatment. I have seen this disease at the worst, it scared the beegezes outta me. It is not fun to have a family involved as well.
Skally, I love you, and hate what the org has done to you. But do not! be as the rest of the world and follow blindly, follow your heart. If you seek, you will find.
wendy
larc

Mommie,
Schizophrenics differ in their degree of scariness. The two I knew best were very intellingent, like Ann, and were raised in a well educated professional family. I met them at the local pub and spent time talking to them over a periond of years. They were not scary at all and were relatively comfortable with their lives considering their illness. Their families, however, went through hell. I know another professional man from the same pub whose son is schizophrenic. His son is very scary. The son is in a group home and comes home on weekends. The weekends are total turmoil for this friend of mine most weekends.
mommy

Hey Larc
The one that scared me so, pulled a 6 man, chair and table combo that was bolted to the ground out of it. I saw the concrete and then saw him rip a water fountain out of the wall. He was the coolest guy on his meds. He was a loving caring man, I grew to love. If not for this dang disease that ruined his chances of a future, if not on his meds.
I honestly grieve for them. The schizophrenics I have met have been intelligent people. But, their home life is a mess. Such a shame.
wendy
In a controversy the instant we feel anger, we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.
larc

Mommie,
Your experience was frightning. I do want to say again that intense anger is not a defining characteristic of schizophrenia. Many are very mild and polite. Like people in general, they run the gamut as far as anger goes. However, the ones that so go off, really go off. A policeman told me that pepper mace which will drop most people in a second, but will not stop a psychotic person in a rage.
As far as advising Skally to follow her heart, I think she needs to also follow her mind and use her critical thinking skills to weigh and evaluate information as opposed to accepting everything at face value.
Tina

Hi larc,
Those lines are so obviously psychotic.
One can see the delusions of suspicion,paranoia grandiosity and reference that are the motif of this severe illness.
'morsalcoda' caught my attention. A clear example of the disorganized speech in this disorder.
Schizophrenia is truly heartbreaking. As it affects the social and occupational functioning of not only the sufferer but of the family as well.
We had a woman in the clinic once who manifested severe symptoms of schiz. She was sure the clocks on the wall were telling her what to do. Another time a man was sure he was getting messages from the FBI thru the arms of his glasses. Seems a common delusion is persecutory or religious. Oftentimes they hear god/jesus talking to them.(auditory hallucinations)(FBI seems to crop up a lot,especially if one peruses cases studies in psych lit.
That whole post held several of the diagnostic criteria for that disorder. These folks are notorious for being medically non-compliant.
The ones that are show signs of tardive dyskinesia......this is a no win disorder. Bottom line I believe you are on the money here.Thanks for the insights.hugs,Tina
logical

Dr Larc
People tend to label people they are afraid of as sick. Not all of this "Ann" person said is "abnormal", while some certainly was, I feel that you was a bit unfair to use some of the points in diagnosis of her disorder.
1. The White House uses the Watchtower, the Awake, and another magazine, Ensign to transmit secret messages.
Very likely. If the White House is not the origin, something else could be.
2. The Jehovah's Witnesses are working on a secret project with the FBI.
That org is so twisted and full of lies, you really cannot put anything past Crooklyn.
3. Ann is working under cover for the FBI. Her book study conducter through a coded message affirmed this to her and her CO confirmed it.
This could also be quite possible - but unlikely.
4. Her friend Lei will continue to cancer treatment "unhindered by the Right Wing conspirators" (paranoid delusion)
???
5. Two FBI agents want her to find out what is going on the Brookings Institute, Aspen, and the JonBenet Ramsey murder case. (delusions of granduer) In other words, one person is going to take on these huge assinments all at once.
Yep, I agree with you here.
6.Rick Lazio got an e mail from Jehovah through Ann. (granduer)
OK. This point clearly shows she is delusional... not just because an email from "Jehovah" was sent through her, but because she is decieved by a bad spirit.
7.Satan has infiltrated the FBI, the JWs, and the staff of black congressman.
Satan has been with the JW's since the beginning
8. Subliminal messages are being sent from the JW platform and from policital speechs at conventions of various groups. She apparantly has made up a word. She calls it "morselcoda".
You prove to me that the WTS has NEVER used any form of subliminal messaging or pictures, then I will believe you on this point. However, the opposite is true. The WTS are experts at deception, and it is something they could easily pull off with little notice.
waiting

Hey larc,
7. Satan has infiltrated the FBI, the JWs, and the staff of black congressman.
Satan probably infiltrates white congressmen also - just to be fair.
That is, if one believes in Satan - which would only seem fair if one believed in God. I, along with Logical, think this one might not be as far-fetched as some of the other statements.
Other than that, as a total non-professional, I agree with your post. I've read the original thread "WOW".
There was another poster on our forum about a week ago in the "Personal Experience" forum. About the same style of writing. Wendy and I, along with others, responded to her.
I really don't think these persons should be challenged, ridiculed, shredded, etc. At least, not a first. I would guess they have enough problems. Her writings were a dead-giveaway that "all was not well."
And I agree - the families of these persons have even more problems. The schizophrenic man I know takes the same meds as his mother - they both don't realize the severity of their problems. And they both don't take their meds regularily.
But the poor father - who has to look after them..........he really is going "nuts." We have dinner with him sometimes, and he spends a good amount of time just shaking his head.
waiting
larc

Etiology,
I thought I would write about the causes of schizphrenia. A long time ago, many thought the illness was caused by demon possession, which could lead to being burned alive to purify one's soul. This is just one more example of religion causing misery, before science could find better answers. Very few peoplde believe this today. However, among small cults and sects, this idea may persist. I would suspect that among some JWs there are those who still believe it. For example, if a Witness met someone at the door who spoke very pecularly, they might ascribe the cause to demons, especially if the householder espoused religious delusions. I remember my own sister saying, "how can you talk to the doctors about the demons". This was during a time when my mother was going through a manic depressive episode.
As early as 60 years ago there were a multitude of theories on the origin of schizophrenia. Most of these have been discarded. One that was particulary harmful, was called the schizophronogenic mother, which is a fancy way of saying that your mother did it to you. Imagine the guilt a mother would feel if told this - a mother who had a perfectly healthy child until the age of 18 or so an then all of a sudden their child was psychotic.
Today, it is believed by most scientists and practitioners that schizophrenia is a geneticly inherited brain desease. Thus, being raised as a JW will not percipitate this psychosis. However, the shame of it is, the JWs will put off getting immediate help because they will get very bad advise from the elders. Someone who exihibits psychotic symptoms should see a professional immediately, and most likely be put on medication immediately. Research indicates that the longer the wait between the onset of the illness and the time someone is treated, the less likely that the medication will be effective.
Further thoughts, experiences, and questions will be appreciated.
Francois

That was certainly the writing of a very disturbed individual, and as stated contains many indicators of schizophrenia. Whatever the condition, the writer is not in touch reality and that is the core definition of the psychotic state.
Mommy is right, IMO, when she implies that the situation isn't funny. It isn't. That person really has no life as we all would define it and will very likely end up a bag lady - or worse.
Francois
Where it is a duty to worship the Sun you can be sure that a study of the laws of heat is a crime.

Schizophrenia

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