Patriotism And All That.. (page 2)

Bas

Englishman, maybe your observation is most applicable to American xdubbies, as their european counterparts seem to resort to America bashing as their new religion. Anyway, I think patriotism can easily lead to nationalism which can be very dangerous. Also hurting people's patriotic feelings can cause them float towards nationalism. One has always keep this in mind when discussing international politics.

Polarization led by emotions usually leads to less understanding of opposing opinions and less willingness to try and understand those other opinions. Anyway, I've seen emotions block the way to rational discussion in the politics section and it has resulted, more than once, in unneccesary name-calling on both sides. I usually try to stay out of discussions going that direction, but I do like to express my opinions on international and American politics

Xena

Wow that was an extremely insightful post Bas.

Valis

Well, seeing as I haven't been a dubbie for a while I have a slightly different perspective. Patriotism for me is a combination of things. Being involved in local politics, helping others, and contributing to the good of my city/state/country is what patriotism means to me. Nationalism is another bird altogether. I have no delusion that the US is "better" than any other country, nor do I, as many nationalists do, slam other countries for their deficicient aspects. Many people assume it is not patriotic to take a stand against war or any administartation running the country, but I don't think so. I think dissenters keep the political climate as healthy as it can be. Just my 2 cents.

Sincerely,

District Overbeer

coffee_black

Great points Bas

Politics also seems to create an us against them mindset...Our side is always right...you must be evil or stupid to have an different idea... Very similar to the organization.

At my recent 35th (Yikes! ) High School reunion, I had an interesting conversation with one of my classmates who is now a Psychiatrist. We talked about the jws and cults. She said she was concerned about her 21 year old son who had been working for the Kerry campaign. She said she observed all of the earmarks of a cult in his behavior. She said the cult mindset is present in a lot of areas in society today that we wouldn't think of.

The good news for us is that having been the victims of cult mind control once, we have a better chance of avoiding it in future because we can recognize the signs. The most vulnerable point is when you are first coming out, and you are vulnerable emotionally and spiritually and you are in great emotional pain and feeling empty.

Coffee

jeanniebeanz

I've seen emotions block the way to rational discussion in the politics section and it has resulted, more than once, in unneccesary name-calling on both sides.

True, which is why I almost did not open this topic. Too many juvenile people replying out of ignorance and hate for any idea save their own. Sounds a lot like how we were trained to think as JW's. Can't beat the facts? No problem! Shred the person. *sheesh*

So glad this thread is not, so far, like that.

Politics gives me an outlet to exercise my rights of having a say in what my government does. Ultimately, I enjoy voting since it is not only important to exercise your rights or else lose them, but I was not able to do so as a JW. I do not look to my government as a replacement for the GB, but rather appreciate the freedom to vote and express ideas and opinions that were previously denied as a witness.

Jeannie

DocHayes

Growing up as a minority in America I always felt that being patriotic was selling out. Despite being a JW, we still lived in the world and my felt the social and economic climate of the US is always against us. So it kinda felt like a Catch 22 type thing when it came to Patriotism.

I have traveled outside of the United States, and while I believe I could enjoy the same freedoms (if not better) than I do here- love it or leave it- America is my home. Being Native- America is my home. Less than a year after I officially Disassociated myself (albiet I stopped considering myself a JW for years prior to) , I enlisted in the Navy. I don't think it was out of a sense of flag-waving patriotism, than it was out of duty.

What is patriotism? Is it pride in a peice of cloth? An ideal? A government? An institution? Your culture? Growing up native (Tuscarora and Saponi), my mother instilled a sense of pride in our culture- although that went against JW teachings (probably a reason for me leaving). I suppose thats why I feel more of a connection to my culture, family, and community than I do the US of A. And in my eyes, the flag and USA represents that. And that I will defend.

Go Navy.

talesin

People here are the same as any other group I've encountered. Some are rabidly nationalistic, some are not.

And just like everywhere, it's the opinionated and the vocal who stand out.

Rabbit

Eman
I wonder if we're using patriotism as a replacement for the loss of a controlling influence that we feel when we leave the witnesses? A sort of reaction to the disequilibrium?
Are we substituting Nationalistic patriotism in place of Watchtowerism?

Valis
"Nationalism..."

As others mentioned...there is a "void" in our lives after JWism leaves it. I've seen some get very interested in a 'new' religion, for myself I cannot forsee EVER being interested in organized religion, but, I never say...never ! I try to keep an open mind after living such a sheltered and somewhat naive life.

Some get into politics as fervently as they did as a JW...whatever piece of dirt they happen to live on, they feel the need to defend their patch against any and all criticism with a 'nationalism' type fervor..."My country...right or wrong." They naturally feel superior and need to rub any mistakes (real or imagined) of other folks governments into all the citizens faces, ad nauseum.

I am involved in politics now for the first time, I voted in the general elections last year, I feel empowered. I also know...I don't know ...too much about it. I listened and heard things in the past, but, I never looked as closely, because "I was no part of the world." Things have changed and I tend to listen and observe a lot before taking a stand on something. I don't like making hasty uninformed decisions...especially if I feel like I am just 'flowing along with the current' of people around me. I hope I will always be somewhat resistant to that urge to be a "sheep" again or flotsam...carried by the wind and waves.

Nationalism is a very, very dangerous animal. It stifles the free flow of ideas across a country and the world.

Rabbit

bttt

Patriotism And All That..

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